Can you ever fold KK pre-flop?

Unknown

I no its unlucky to get KK vs AA but in the last 2 days ive busted 3 tournaments with the same situation. Is there ever an argument to fold KK pre-flop. It seems when i 3-bet KK and then im 4-bet it always seems to be AA

Dudeskin8

In tournements I'd say there's never a chance of me folding KK pre and that's purely down to stack size which at it's peak in the beginning usually starts at 100bbs, and might be higher if two doubled up stacks happen to clash, but overall you're never gonna be massively stacked and anywhere between 10-50bbs is just too short to consider folding for me.

In cash it's very different as you can often be suoer deep like 300-500bbs deep maybe much more and in this situation facing certain action it MIGHT be ok to fold but it's never easy. One example on one of the Mastercash shows I think it was LjamesL folding to a cold 4bet from Gliterbabe or something like that and if history shows that 4bets are very rare than it can be considered.

On the original post though 3 tourney exits in 2 days in unfortunate but it's really just variance, in that you could have had those exits spaced over 2 months but because it's 2 days they stay in your head more. It's a lot about the mental side of poker and trying to undertsand that bad stuff happens but as long as you did the right thing that's all that matters. 

FlashFlush

You think that's bad. I had KK into AA 4 times in 1 day at the weekend! All 100BB stacks on cash. That doesn't include the 2 QQ's into KK either lol

The_Don90

Never fold KK for less than 200big imo. This obviously means in 90% of tournaments no.

However if suddenly say a massive nit (really tight player) starts 5/6 betting you then id be consearned and maybe take a more causious approch. Although again we have to be seriously deep for me to find a fold. However again most opponents its a stack.  

unknown_username

you can in a DYM for sure at the bubble in certain circumstances.....though AA and KK are still classed as exploitable plays. However if there's a micro stack in bb with players in front covering you all-in then why call? Its tempting fate isn't it?

Fabraclass

In Response to Can you ever fold KK pre-flop?:

I no its unlucky to get KK vs AA but in the last 2 days ive busted 3 tournaments with the same situation. Is there ever an argument to fold KK pre-flop. It seems when i 3-bet KK and then im 4-bet it always seems to be AA
Posted by anonymous

Without reads, and with stack's of 100 big blinds or less in 6 max, no mate

If you have a read that a player will only get 100 big blinds in with AA or KK and you have KK then you can fold quite happily. It all depends on the range somebody 3 and 4 bets with.

Deeper and in full ring games, with a reasonable grasp of somebody's range. Their is far more grounds for folding KK pre flop.

Another important factor to consider in deciding whether it will be profitable to get premium hands in pre flop, is your position and the position of your opponent. If you are UTG and the opponent is UTG+1 then 3 and 4 betting ranges will tighten, therefore you should be more reticent to get hands like QQ and AK in pre flop against tight players. As against these players you may find yourself up against AA KK only, if all the money goes in pre flop. Whereas another player may be 3 and 4 betting lighter and be willing to go allin lighter

If you very certain that another player knows you are a certain type of player, be it tight or loose, then this will impact the range of hands they are willing to get allin pre flop against you. Therefore you should adjust to this by determining what hands you are willing to get allin pre flop against them.

If a player is willing to get AK allin pre flop. This alters the equation significantly. As they will then be roughly 3 or 4 times more likely to have AK then AA for example. As their are far more combinations of unpaired cards then paired cards.

Information is king in poker. It is very important to make opponent specific decisions, and to have good information on your opponents.

GL.

GREGHOGG

Its very rare, but this is a spot i folded KK and felt good about it due to my read on the player. It was a deepstack, and the villan assured me he had AA. In fact when he 3 bet it put him on a range of AA-QQ (occasionally AK if hes feeling loose) and then when he raises my cold 4 bet.. i fold confidently!

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
pomfrittes	Small blind		20.00	20.00	4421.25
GREGHOGG	Big blind		40.00	60.00	5147.50
	Your hole cards	K K
67Bhoys	Fold
POKEY2011	Raise		120.00	180.00	4331.25
minxymoo	Fold
NITTY	Raise		360.00	540.00	4685.00
pomfrittes	Fold
GREGHOGG	Raise		800.00	1340.00	4347.50
POKEY2011	Fold
NITTY	Raise		2400.00	3740.00	2285.00
GREGHOGG	Fold
NITTY	Muck
NITTY	Win		1820.00		4105.00
NITTY	Return		1920.00	0.00	6025.00

IDONKCALLU

i only folded kk once in 8 years of playing the game apart from dyms and sattelites u can fold kk comftably if u have big stack but once i was on 20nl 10p/20 blinds utg limped i was in cut of withh raised to a £1 then folded round to utg who jams full buy in 100bb £20 i even said on the chat u i know u have aces 100 percent this is a old skoool move doesnt work now i folded kk and the guy showed aces was sooooooo obv he had it limp 20 p then happy to put 20 quid in lol 

unknown_username

In Response to Re: Can you ever fold KK pre-flop?:

Its very rare, but this is a spot i folded KK and felt good about it due to my read on the player. It was a deepstack, and the villan assured me he had AA. In fact when he 3 bet it put him on a range of AA-QQ (occasionally AK if hes feeling loose) and then when he raises my cold 4 bet.. i fold confidently! Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance pomfrittes Small blind   20.00 20.00 4421.25 GREGHOGG Big blind   40.00 60.00 5147.50   Your hole cards K K       67Bhoys Fold         POKEY2011 Raise   120.00 180.00 4331.25 minxymoo Fold         NITTY Raise   360.00 540.00 4685.00 pomfrittes Fold         GREGHOGG Raise   800.00 1340.00 4347.50 POKEY2011 Fold         NITTY Raise   2400.00 3740.00 2285.00 GREGHOGG Fold         NITTY Muck         NITTY Win   1820.00   4105.00 NITTY Return   1920.00 0.00 6025.00
Posted by GREGHOGG

Did you find out what he had Greg?

IDONKCALLU

u can fold kk its not easy like greghoggs hand depends on the action after u hate life but u can fold it i just explained my reason for folding imsure alot of you would of done same i did feel great after  

GREGHOGG

In Response to Re: Can you ever fold KK pre-flop?:

In Response to Re: Can you ever fold KK pre-flop? : Did you find out what he had Greg?
Posted by profman15

yes he had AA, and as hes a decent forum reg and a spurs fan he has no need to lie

GELDY

In a sat - on the bubble - yes - even AA

but it is very hard to do

if the big stack is allin, and you are not at all short, then you are risking an almost certain progression for a possible worthless double up.

But so difficult to actually do - and when I actually had AA in that situation I had to call - he hit his two cards to double up and knock me out - so just lay them down.

rancid

should never fold KK pre 6 max unless situation ie. DYM/SAT dictates otherwise


suppose facing the right kind of action and a 4/5 bet 3 way from a nit like me then you may consider it

simonnatur

I have done it once or twice in full ring cash games, but cant recall ever having done so on Sky at 6max

AMYBR

Think have folded K's twice live, based on being stuck between nitty regs going at it with a cold 3 or 4 bet cant quite remeber now. 

But its always going to be so in the minority that its not really worth thinking about too much.

At a 9 handed table there is a 4% shot of someone picking up A's when your holding K's.