All Categories› Sky Poker Strategy› The Poker Clinic

You need to be logged in to your Sky Poker account above to post discussions and comments.

You might need to refresh your page afterwards.

Sky Poker forums will be temporarily unavailable from 11pm Wednesday July 25th.
Sky Poker Forums is upgrading its look! Stay tuned for the big reveal!

Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money?

foldUfairyfoldUfairy
edited May 2012 in The Poker Clinic

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
MajSmall blind 150.00150.0010215.00
foldUfairyBig blind 300.00450.0011471.00
 Your hole cards
  • K
  • A
   
moodsCall 300.00750.0016315.04
mickjenn1Fold    
bigmojoCall 300.001050.003535.00
grantos888Call 300.001350.004102.50
MajFold    
foldUfairyRaise 2100.003450.009371.00
moodsCall 2100.005550.0014215.04
bigmojoCall 2100.007650.001435.00
grantos888Fold    
Flop
  
  • A
  • 5
  • 7
   
foldUfairyBet 3900.0011550.005471.00
moodsRaise 7800.0019350.006415.04
bigmojoFold    
foldUfairyAll-in 5471.0024821.000.00
moodsCall 1571.0026392.004844.04
foldUfairyShow
  • K
  • A
   
moodsShow
  • 7
  • 7
   
Turn
  
  • 9
   
River
  
  • 5
   
moodsWinFull House, 7s and 5s26392.00 31236.04

This was my exit hand in the mini primo, just wondering do i have too many BB's here to just shove pre and take the dead money?
I think i had just under 40x.
This got me thinking what is the general cutoff when jamming pre to take a multi limped pot, for example jamming 100x to take down say 7x is excessive.
Anyway at the time i felt i had too much to just jam and this could definatley be a mistake, so i'd just like to hear some other opinions and thoughts as to what you would do in this situation and what you feel would be to much ect.
Thanks.

· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter

Comments

  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited May 2012
    Yeah once u bet as much pre and on flop you have to go broke. I might go for the full shove squeeze. Opponents put way too much into set mine. WP
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • AMYBRAMYBR
    edited May 2012
    Nice screen name.

    This is my least fav type of poker tbh :P

    Playing vs people who can only win if the deck smacks them.  I have 54bbs I may aswell just limp with 7's.  Oh well some guy has made a massive raise i'll just peel to c/f for another 6bbs despite two ppl already called the massive bet and I have 2 people left to act..... Oh theres my 7 I played this hand great :) lolz

    I think if your going to make it that big you may aswell just ship it.

    I'd prob make it 1100 tbh tho.  We dont have to live or die by this hand (well we do once we make it 7x).  Seems from the action you get you must know worse would call, generating massive pot on flop that we'll often brick.  Yeah if this was the dynamic at table I def ship tbh.  tighter game I make it 1100ish.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • foldUfairyfoldUfairy
    edited May 2012
    In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money?:
    Nice screen name. This is my least fav type of poker tbh :P Playing vs people who can only win if the deck smacks them.  I have 54bbs I may aswell just limp with 7's.  Oh well some guy has made a massive raise i'll just peel to c/f for another 6bbs despite two ppl already called the massive bet and I have 2 people left to act..... Oh theres my 7 I played this hand great :) lolz I think if your going to make it that big you may aswell just ship it. I'd prob make it 1100 tbh tho.  We dont have to live or die by this hand (well we do once we make it 7x).  Seems from the action you get you must know worse would call, generating massive pot on flop that we'll often brick.  Yeah if this was the dynamic at table I def ship tbh.  tighter game I make it 1100ish.
    Posted by AMYBR
    Haha ye bad play for sure, but these bad plays make for easy money as he misses there most of the time and cbet takes it down.
    I hadn't been on this table for long to be honest, so i thought this would have taken it down pre.
    I didn't really expect the limp call for this much more as we were towards the end of the tourny.
    So both of you would be leaning towards shipping it pre, but what amount would you consider too much too ship in this spot? Thanks.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited May 2012
    In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money?:
    In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money? : Haha ye bad play for sure, but these bad plays make for easy money as he misses there most of the time and cbet takes it down. I hadn't been on this table for long to be honest, so i thought this would have taken it down pre. I didn't really expect the limp call for this much more as we were towards the end of the tourny. So both of you would be leaning towards shipping it pre, but what amount would you consider too much too ship in this spot? Thanks.
    Posted by foldUfairy
    Being honest i think nothing is too much. As long as you do it with a balanced range in this spot. E.g. youll also shove 72o here and AA. That allows for most impac and a big payday when we do have it. Even if called we're probably live in those other times

    Id say particular because your OOP makes it even more towards  a really big squeeze. As you said you havent been here for long so that makes it harder to judge.

    Just balance range and shove.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • foldUfairyfoldUfairy
    edited May 2012
    In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money?:
    In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money? : Being honest i think nothing is too much. As long as you do it with a balanced range in this spot. E.g. youll also shove 72o here and AA. That allows for most impac and a big payday when we do have it. Even if called we're probably live in those other times Id say particular because your OOP makes it even more towards  a really big squeeze. As you said you havent been here for long so that makes it harder to judge. Just balance range and shove.
    Posted by The_Don90

    Ye, i definately agree i'm oop and i don't know if people have just been limp calling most pots.
    Defo profitable to just be shoving any two here upon reflection. Thanks.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • EvilPinguEvilPingu
    edited May 2012
    I think shove is fine. We're OOP and we're going to miss the flop a lot of the time and waste several BB's, so just ship it pre.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Batkin88Batkin88
    edited May 2012
    I don't like shoving pre as your kinda turning your hand face up, you ain't going to shove with AA KK QQ JJ TT 99 88 so the sevens are probably thinking there ahead of you here anyway (Although his limp pre makes me think he doesn't really know or care what you have) I would raise to around 1k to 1.2k ish this allows your to c-bet comfortably but as the flop comes down you are prob still going broke here but there will be times you get away as the limp call smells like a pocket pair. But the majority of the time if you hit or miss you make the c-bet and get the fold from PP'S anyway.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • foldUfairyfoldUfairy
    edited May 2012
    In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money?:
    I don't like shoving pre as your kinda turning your hand face up, you ain't going to shove with AA KK QQ JJ TT 99 88 so the sevens are probably thinking there ahead of you here anyway (Although his limp pre makes me think he doesn't really know or care what you have) I would raise to around 1k to 1.2k ish this allows your to c-bet comfortably but as the flop comes down you are prob still going broke here but there will be times you get away as the limp call smells like a pocket pair. But the majority of the time if you hit or miss you make the c-bet and get the fold from PP'S anyway.
    Posted by Batkin88
    Yes to a thinking player your probably right, but like the don said if i shove any two here then i have to balance my range, so i would be shoving all the above mentioned hands aswell as worse.
    I don't really like raising to 1k or 1.2k as i feel the whole table will then limp call and i'm oop vs a very wide range.
    Thanks.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • AMYBRAMYBR
    edited May 2012
    I may well ship QQ+ here as a bit of a merge.  There are some shallower stacks that will snap AJetc & isolate some flips.

    I think the raise c-bet line is ridic kamikaze, as if we get even 1 caller our cbet will be committing in any case.  1 caller generates a pot of 5500 with 9000 back.  2 callers we have pot back effectively.  Pretty much why i'd make it 1100 or ship.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Batkin88Batkin88
    edited May 2012
    If you raise and get 1 caller at 1.1 k it is a 2.8k pot not 5.5 so c-betting would be viable and profitable if you jam alot of players will put u on this exact hand in a tournament
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • foldUfairyfoldUfairy
    edited May 2012
    In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money?:
    I may well ship QQ+ here as a bit of a merge.  There are some shallower stacks that will snap AJetc & isolate some flips. I think the raise c-bet line is ridic kamikaze, as if we get even 1 caller our cbet will be committing in any case.  1 caller generates a pot of 5500 with 9000 back.  2 callers we have pot back effectively.  Pretty much why i'd make it 1100 or ship.
    Posted by AMYBR

    The more i think about it and from what i have read here i do hate my line.
    I don't really think the more passive route of raising to 1100 and letting everyone limp call is for me tho either, saying that it does allow you to get away for cheap.
    Overall i would definatley be shipping in this spot next time.
    Thanks.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • AMYBRAMYBR
    edited May 2012
    In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money?:
    If you raise and get 1 caller at 1.1 k it is a 2.8k pot not 5.5 so c-betting would be viable and profitable if you jam alot of players will put u on this exact hand in a tournament
    Posted by Batkin88
    Meant as played.  Obv if we scale it back and make it 1100 its going to play different.  That was pretty much my point :p.

    When saying its 5.5k is obv based on op'ster as played?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • AMYBRAMYBR
    edited May 2012
    In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money?:
    In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money? : The more i think about it and from what i have read here i do hate my line. I don't really think the more passive route of raising to 1100 and letting everyone limp call is for me tho either, saying that it does allow you to get away for cheap. Overall i would definatley be shipping in this spot next time. Thanks.
    Posted by foldUfairy

    Its not exactly passive bud.  We isolate the limpers vs the blinds with the NNP (nut no pair).  Gives us the betting lead and we can extract value on some boards vs strong but inferior hands.

    Why do we get dumped out of MTT's?  Because we dont leave ourselves room to play.  1100 or shove ftw :p

    VUL tho tbf.  And agree, really dont like how he plays his hand (which I may have hinted at in first post :P)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Batkin88Batkin88
    edited May 2012
    In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money?:
    In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money? : Meant as played.  Obv if we scale it back and make it 1100 its going to play different.  That was pretty much my point :p. When saying its 5.5k is obv based on op'ster as played?
    Posted by AMYBR
    Completely misread your post my bad
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • foldUfairyfoldUfairy
    edited May 2012
    In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money?:
    If you raise and get 1 caller at 1.1 k it is a 2.8k pot not 5.5 so c-betting would be viable and profitable if you jam alot of players will put u on this exact hand in a tournament
    Posted by Batkin88

    How can they if i'll be doing this with my whole range?
    You can't just limp call it off with a medium pair hoping your good against AK.
    I do think there will be certain situations were making it 1.1k will probably be slightly better than shipping but not many. Thanks.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • foldUfairyfoldUfairy
    edited May 2012
    In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money?:
    In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money? : Completely misread your post my bad
    Posted by Batkin88
    lol it's ok mate.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • AMYBRAMYBR
    edited May 2012
    I'll fold 77 to AK 30bbs deep in MTT all week n twice n sunday :p
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • foldUfairyfoldUfairy
    edited May 2012
    In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money?:
    I'll fold 77 to AK 30bbs deep in MTT all week n twice n sunday :p
    Posted by AMYBR

    Haha me doss.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Dudeskin8Dudeskin8
    edited May 2012
    I probably raise a bit less pre, about 1600.

    Flop you hit the nuts for your hand and just unlucky he has set.

    Pre think it's just a bit too much for shove but does depend on how loose they play as in soem BH's people will limp and call off with lots of high card combo's.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • liamboi11liamboi11
    edited May 2012
    i think your sizing pre flop is fine imo
    and on the flop your just vul he hit set vs your tptk
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited May 2012
    In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money?:
    I probably raise a bit less pre, about 1600. Flop you hit the nuts for your hand and just unlucky he has set. Pre think it's just a bit too much for shove but does depend on how loose they play as in soem BH's people will limp and call off with lots of high card combo's.
    Posted by Dudeskin8
    ah good blooming point i didnt realise this was a bh. yer this does change my mind about shoving with a sider range., People call soo light for those heads.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited May 2012
    Hi FAIRY!
    IMO, too big a raise pre....3x-4x is enough to get the job done at this stage. After all you are trying to get small pp's, gap SC's out of the pot maybe? You want to see a flop and see if you've caught don't you otherwise you've A high v possible high pair. A 3x reraise may be 4 bet and give you decision to make but at least you'll have a notion that he has high pocket pairs or something like AQ. That's my kind of thinking anyway...for what it's worth 
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • foldUfairyfoldUfairy
    edited May 2012
    In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money?:
    In Response to Re: Do i have to many BB's here to just jam pre and take the dead money? : ah good blooming point i didnt realise this was a bh. yer this does change my mind about shoving with a sider range., People call soo light for those heads.
    Posted by The_Don90
    This wasn't a BH it was the mini primo.

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
Sign In or Register to comment.