too tight?

jams88

Villain is pretty well known on the forum and the DYM scene a winning player. Can't see him 3betting me on the flop with anything that im beating given the limp call. Pocket 3's do you think or should i shove here?

Hand History #524908911 (13:21 29/05/2012)

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
allybungle	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£2.85
ballboy	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£17.15
SMANIK	Big blind		£0.10	£0.25	£5.90
	Your hole cards	K A
SMANIK	Check
JohnConnor	Call		£0.10	£0.35	£9.54
jams88	Raise		£0.50	£0.85	£14.04
synergy	Fold
allybungle	Fold
ballboy	Fold
SMANIK	Fold
JohnConnor	Call		£0.40	£1.25	£9.14
Flop
		3 9 A
JohnConnor	Check
jams88	Bet		£0.90	£2.15	£13.14
JohnConnor	Raise		£2.43	£4.58	£6.71
jams88	Fold
JohnConnor	Muck
JohnConnor	Win		£2.82		£9.53
JohnConnor	Return		£1.53	£0.23	£11.06

Swog

regardless of wether hes big on the DYM scene or not, he has limped in so it doesn't look likely that he's as strong on the cash scene.

I just get it in, its too exploitable to be folding TPTK to a raise, he can have bluffs Ax, FD, etc.

i expect a raise with 99, you can't just fold being scared of the one hand.

KAM99

I don't know the player, so I guess its up to how well you know his game. I'm not a "huge" fan of getting it all in on cash games with TPTK, though of course I do, but its read dependant sometimes. With your raise preflop an ace high board is certainly a flop in your range so I'd be very surprisd if this is a bluff. It might be a semi-bluff with the flush draw, but a bluff nearly never.

Hard to say if he mayhave played a suited ace with  limp if a rag one, but thats up to you and what you know of him, and if so he may have 2 pair. That said with his limp call this isn't uncommon for some players to play their small PP's this way. For me on ths board I don't see much other than a set or the semi-bluff flush draw. Think its all going in on turn if you call, so this for me is really knowledge read on villian as to if I go for it all in or ge out the way. Don't lke to fold but sometimes a big fold can save an hour or mores work fixing a wrong choice.

AMYBR

You had a read and had the conviction to go with it.  Thats pretty much all I'd take away from the hand.

From a purist +EV yeah it aint great.  But in a vacuum based on situational info dont hate it.

And in honesty, line oppo takes is just soooooo often a set.

But if we stick to our read and hero fold, we have to insta hero forget the hand also and be confident with our decision.

grantorino

Fold and be happy about it

rancid

set all day and everyday

Fabraclass

In Response to too tight?:

Villain is pretty well known on the forum and the DYM scene a winning player. Can't see him 3betting me on the flop with anything that im beating given the limp call. Pocket 3's do you think or should i shove here? Hand History #524908911 (13:21 29/05/2012) Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance allybungle Small blind   £0.05 £0.05 £2.85 ballboy Big blind   £0.10 £0.15 £17.15 SMANIK Big blind   £0.10 £0.25 £5.90   Your hole cards K A       SMANIK Check         JohnConnor Call   £0.10 £0.35 £9.54 jams88 Raise   £0.50 £0.85 £14.04 synergy Fold         allybungle Fold         ballboy Fold         SMANIK Fold         JohnConnor Call   £0.40 £1.25 £9.14 Flop     3 9 A       JohnConnor Check         jams88 Bet   £0.90 £2.15 £13.14 JohnConnor Raise   £2.43 £4.58 £6.71 jams88 Fold         JohnConnor Muck         JohnConnor Win   £2.82   £9.53 JohnConnor Return   £1.53 £0.23 £11.06
Posted by jams88

In this spot I am generally flatting raise. Calling pretty much any turn, flush turn maybe not. And my decision on the river will depend on my reads on the opponent and whether the flush comes in. Unless my hand improves and no flush comes in I'm not beating very much that raises flop, bets turn ,and river. It would be opponent specific.

If the opponent rarely raises flop. And you think he not the type of player to raise the flop with a random ace. You may have a read that when the opponent raises flop in this situation, he far more often then not has a set or two pair. Then a fold is ok.

liamboi11

yeah on this board he has set/two pair or is bluffing imo

and if i remember john is quite a tagish player so think fold but im a nit lol

DrRunGood

not to tight if u have read on player if player aint likely to do this with just a pair so great fold

Swog

Get those chips in the middle.
Don't be scared of sets! Don't come around to often

EvilPingu

Not too tight IMO. Nice set of 3's JC

Agree with what AMYBR said.

Also, readless, fold looks horrible. Knowing the villain, it's not so bad.

IDONKCALLU

im all in here all day long i know john is a solid player a a dym reg so that image says hes tight so could easily have a set but folding tptk and bet fold with these stacks is bad imo im raising all in everytime here there are so many ahnds u are beating vs the 1s john has 

Swog

heck, he could even have 9x knowing he has to protect against most of the hands you cbet.

SHOVE!

EvilPingu

For those saying shove - What other hands does someone limp/call pre with, then check/raise that flop, except for Pocket 3's?

IDONKCALLU

flush draw ? could raise flop to get a c-bet to fold and by raising rep a ace 

EvilPingu

In Response to Re: too tight?:

flush draw ? could raise flop to get a c-bet to fold and by raising rep a ace 
Posted by IDONKCALLU

But you're not representing an ace, because an ace would've raised pre-flop. Hero will fold air when faced with check/raise, but it'd be unwise for villain to bluff as the Hero's range is full of Ax hands. I doubt a flush draw would c/r here, as the villain has taken a passive line pre-flop, so it's strange for villain to get aggro post-flop all of a sudden.

Swog

are you seriously narrowing him down to the one hand (33).

He can have plenty more. 9x, FD, SD, Ax. There is also the possibility that a set of threes would flat call his cbet too.

Swog

In Response to Re: too tight?:

In Response to Re: too tight? : But you're not representing an ace, because an ace would've raised pre-flop.
Posted by EvilPingu

How do we know villian is thinking so in depth?

IDONKCALLU

could be ace rag but it is john im not saying its not a set could easily be a set would call tho with stacks surely by raing your only getting c-bet bluffs to fold 

 but if im playing im all in easy to say fold against a good dym reg but harder to do  

EvilPingu

In Response to Re: too tight?:

In Response to Re: too tight? : How do we know villian is thinking so in depth?
Posted by Swog

Because of who the villain is. If this was a random 10NL player, then I agree. But JohnConnor is a lot better than that.

IDONKCALLU

evilpingu with johns stack size only £6.91 surely he would get stacks in by check calling till river question is why would he raise on flop to get a c-bet to fold surely if he had a set he would call here and still get a double up by calling down ??

KAM99

In Response to Re: too tight?:

flush draw ? could raise flop to get a c-bet to fold and by raising rep a ace 
Posted by IDONKCALLU

Yep, never get away with repping an ace given preflop action unless its a rag ace, and unlikely to reraise that given that the raiser definately has an ace in their raising range. So only ace you could be repping is 2 pair really, as other wise story just doesn't fit unless villian has shown to limp most hands.

Swog

He might be the best DYM player in the world, doesn't mean his cash game is of the same standard, so i wouldn't be too quick to assign him as the better of the NL10 players.
Wether he has 33 or not he shouldnt limp in. Anyway, i still don't assign him to 33 just yet.

It would be good to hear what he did have in the end.

grantorino

Well assuming JC has some basic poker knowledge and isnt raising hero a lot,

He never has worse Ax here

He never has 9x unless x is a heart, doubt he limp calls many 9x though

Doubt he limpcalls many hands that become fds, also Ah on board

Really looks like 33 to me, but maybe he shows up with fd or air enough.  Thing is though hero is dead v sets cand and fds have decent equity v him.  Folding tptk is exploitable, but that doesn't matter unless he is trying to exploit you, and he won't know you folded it

offshoot

This is basically a prime example of why a limping strategy is terrible. He limps in to see a cheap flop with a weak hand that presumably doesnt flop well. Now he has hit the flop any show of aggression turns his hand face up. As is evident by the OP folding TPTK.

liamboi11

only hands i`m puttin him on here is 33,99,a3,a9 suited or poss flush draw but very unlikely vs this opponent

as i said in previous post on this board it is 2pair/set or bluff and im my experience your crushed imo.

jams88

In Response to Re: too tight?:

only hands i`m puttin him on here is 33,99,a3,a9 suited or poss flush draw but very unlikely vs this opponent as i said in previous post on this board it is 2pair/set or bluff and im my experience your crushed imo.
Posted by liamboi11

this was what i was thinking although i expect, villian to bring in 99 with a riase pre tbh had him on only 33 but maybe thats narrowed down too much