AK 125BB deep facing heavy action OOP

The_Don90

Ok

x & a are both very fish

q is probably the most aggressive player on the table, decent LAG.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
The_Don90	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£5.19
kingrufa17	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£2.78
	Your hole cards	K A
A	Raise		£0.20	£0.26	£1.94
Q	Raise		£0.68	£0.94	£5.83
X	Call		£0.68	£1.62	£3.02
The_Don90	All-in

grantorino

Is A a limpy fish or does he open a bit? What's lags 3b range here

4b/c sounds good. 

percival09

^^ +1

The_Don90

In Response to Re: AK 125BB deep facing heavy action OOP:

Is A a limpy fish or does he open a bit? What's lags 3b range here 4b/c sounds good.
Posted by grantorino

A is quite a fishy player first time ive seen him open

X is also extremely loose passive

Q Most aggressive player on the table. Never really seen him get to showdown much but when he has, hes had the goods.

AMYBR

Am trying to give this hand the level of thought it probably deserves but at nl4 I struggle tbh.  That is not an insult to solid nl4 players, its simply a reflection of how often I think oppo's will bet 5x and 3bet + station with junk (being pretty often).

Simply because I think the capacity for worse to be in there soooo often that will snap it off, flips, dead money and isolation I ship here all day long.  Not massively caring about the outcome. 

Will happily take whats in there if their just clowning around, will be happy to isolate a flip vs tag.

The_Don90

In Response to Re: AK 125BB deep facing heavy action OOP:

Am trying to give this hand the level of thought it probably deserves but at nl4 I struggle tbh.  That is not an insult to solid nl4 players, its simply a reflection of how often I think oppo's will bet 5x and 3bet + station with junk (being pretty often). Simply because I think the capacity for worse to be in there soooo often that will snap it off, flips, dead money and isolation I ship here all day long.  Not massively caring about the outcome.  Will happily take whats in there if their just clowning around, will be happy to isolate a flip vs tag.
Posted by AMYBR

This was my worry with posting this hand, i really think theres much more to it than its NL4 get it in. Hense why i posted it. This is the first time ive played with 'Q' and until this point he seemed one of the best players ive seen at these levels.

BigHawk89

Shove and take down the dead money in the pot.

AMYBR

In Response to Re: AK 125BB deep facing heavy action OOP:

In Response to Re: AK 125BB deep facing heavy action OOP : This was my worry with posting this hand, i really think theres much more to it than its NL4 get it in. Hense why i posted it. This is the first time ive played with 'Q' and until this point he seemed one of the best players ive seen at these levels.
Posted by The_Don90

True and noted but that being the case there is going to be a bit of a lvl between him and yourself.  How do you think he plays AQ/J KQ and pps here vs other two given reads?  Solid he may be, but he will obv be looking to isolate top of his range vs the spewboxs.  So the lvl is you have the NNP which will be above his range to raise/isolate the other two, but the strength he shows is kind of distorting vs the two lags if you follow me.

True he'll show a hand that has us in bad shape occassionaly.  Rest we dominate or flip vs. Plus we can force out some even money flips.

The_Don90

In Response to Re: AK 125BB deep facing heavy action OOP:

In Response to Re: AK 125BB deep facing heavy action OOP : True and noted but that being the case there is going to be a bit of a lvl between him and yourself.  How do you think he plays AQ/J KQ and pps here vs other two given reads?  Solid he may be, but he will obv be looking to isolate top of his range vs the spewboxs.  So the lvl is you have the NNP which will be above his range to raise/isolate the other two, but the strength he shows is kind of distorting vs the two lags if you follow me. True he'll show a hand that has us in bad shape occassionaly.  Rest we dominate or flip vs. Plus we can force out some even money flips.
Posted by AMYBR

Tbh until this point ive avoided any major pots with him, as a result i think being leveled would be ruled out. Would he even know im a reg?? AQ is possible as is TT-QQ i think. However the rest of the time i think im gonna be crushed. The cold call doesnt bother me at this level.

The opener is normally limping so his range i think is very similar to the 3better, although probably can include all other pairs and maybe AJ/AT/KQ/KJ (although ive seen him limping AT and AJ previous)

Obv i have the NNP but im just so uncertain that AK is in good shape here. I feel like this has became a marginal spot.

rancid

I snap shove, over thinking at NL4 is just not required

make note on oppo's sizing etc.. and move on

Fabraclass

In Response to AK 125BB deep facing heavy action OOP:

Ok x & a are both very fish q is probably the most aggressive player on the table, decent LAG. Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance The_Don90 Small blind   £0.02 £0.02 £5.19 kingrufa17 Big blind   £0.04 £0.06 £2.78   Your hole cards K A       A Raise   £0.20 £0.26 £1.94 Q Raise   £0.68 £0.94 £5.83 X Call   £0.68 £1.62 £3.02 The_Don90 All-in
Posted by The_Don90

Given you read, that A in only opening premiums, and q has a tight 3 betting range. I would fold here.

Q has you covered, and given your respect for his play and always seeing him have the goods. Then I would imagine he is folding AQ to a shove, so id imagine you would be flipping most of the time against them, but dominated some times.

With a and q having such tight ranges, I don't think we have much fold equity here. And the other player, although loose has cold called a raise from utg+1 and a reraise from the cut off. This generally show's strength, although granted in this situation it may show less strength.

AK is only a hand to get in pre flop for 100bbs or more, in a heads up pot, when 3 betting ranges are wide.This is because when 3 betting ranges are wide, you have fold equity when 4 betting. Given that Qs 3 betting range isn't wide and their are two other players in the pot I would fold here mate.

grantorino

Don, how do you know villain is a decent lag.  He may be, but you havent played him before, seen many showdowns and you aren't giving him a very wide 3betting range here( prob correct in this spot if he is decent). Also you think he mightnt notice you are a reg, which suggests very few hands played. I would think decent lags at 4nl are pretty rare as its difficult to play laggy at 4nl and also more difficult to be a good lag than a decent tag in general

I would sometimes fold this kind of spot but I don't think you have good enough reason to do so here. I think raising can sometimes make  q fold if he is good as cold 4bets are so rare at 4nl and you get it in flipping a lot with some dead money

percival09

in your op, you say A is a fish and then you later say this is the first time you've seen him open

you say Q is aggressive so his 3b doesn't mean much

X is also a fish so his cold call also doesn't mean much

given the information above there's no other move. It has to be either shove or 4b/c imo

The_Don90

In Response to Re: AK 125BB deep facing heavy action OOP:

in your op, you say A is a fish and then you later say this is the first time you've seen him open you say Q is aggressive so his 3b doesn't mean much X is also a fish so his cold call also doesn't mean much given the information above there's no other move. It has to be either shove or 4b/c imo
Posted by percival09

I think my reads on Q are a little mis-worded. Hes opening alot, but never 3betting.

Fwiw i dnt think its relevant to this hand but after it he tilted badly and became sensational value. Don style mega tilted.

However thats obviously not relevant so im trying to share the reads i had before this point, which is obviously skewy as they changed afterwards,

BigHawk89

In Response to Re: AK 125BB deep facing heavy action OOP:

In Response to Re: AK 125BB deep facing heavy action OOP : I think my reads on Q are a little mis-worded. Hes opening alot, but never 3betting. Fwiw i dnt think its relevant to this hand but after it he tilted badly and became sensational value. Don style mega tilted. However thats obviously not relevant so im trying to share the reads i had before this point, which is obviously skewy as they changed afterwards,
Posted by The_Don90

I dont think the reads on players are so reliable or as important at this level, seems like your over thinking the situation. Think its just an insta shove, if your up against AA or KKm just a cooler.