You need to be logged in to your Sky Poker account above to post discussions and comments.

You might need to refresh your page afterwards.

Sky Poker forums will be temporarily unavailable from 11pm Wednesday July 25th.
Sky Poker Forums is upgrading its look! Stay tuned for the big reveal!

Is this a call on the river?

edited July 2012 in The Poker Clinic
donkeyplopSmall blind 100.00100.007555.84spornybolBig blind 200.00300.003577.88 Your hole cardsAK   chocs505Fold    IDONKCALLURaise 450.00750.002361.28donkeyplopFold    spornybolCall 250.001000.003327.88Flop  8A2   spornybolCheck    IDONKCALLUCheck    Turn  Q   spornybolBet 750.001750.002577.88IDONKCALLUCall 750.002500.001611.28River  10   spornybolAll-in 2577.885077.880.00

Comments

  • edited June 2012
    I'm calling here.
  • edited June 2012
    5bb left, no option but to call here. Fold would suck, even though I suspect you are beat to 2 pair. Flush is possible but given ace is out there, but its possible. Either way can't fold top pair with so little left.
  • edited June 2012
    Half pot flop, shove turn. 

    Call now.
  • edited June 2012

    I'm not keen on anything you did in this hand.

    Pre-flop: You've got 14BB and I'm assuming that if you had KQ, KJ, AT, A9, 55, etc. you would be shoving from the button. In order to balance your range you should also be shoving with AK. Of course I understand wanting to get extra value when you have a premium hand but if you're shoving often with this stack-size, you're more likely to get the call anyway. AK isn't even a made hand so when you're this short you don't want to see flops with it.

    If I'm wrong to assume that you'd be shoving regularly with this stack, then at this blind level there's no need to add that extra 50 chips. A min-raise will do exactly the same job. It is only a small difference in any one individual hand but if you make this bet ten times, that's 500 chips (2.5BB). It soon adds up across your poker career. Frankly I think you should be shoving, as you ought never to be bet-folding out of a 14BB stack in a tournment anyway.

    On the flop: Why did you miss the c-bet? You should be confident that you have the best Ace, given the pre-flop action. C-bet for half-pot and be happy if you take down the huge number of chips in the pot and be equally happy to get the lot in. The chances are slim that your opponent has a better hand than you right now but you can make them pay to draw to a flush and get value from weaker Aces. There are alot of scare cards that can come for you, so make your opponent pay to see them. There's no reason to not c-bet the flop.

    On the turn: When you face this 750 bet, it's effectively a committing moment for you. If you think you have the best hand then shove. After the flop action you can still be called by weaker aces and someone holding a flush draw may give you a spin. You shouldn't be calling 750 out of your 2360 stack. If you think you're beat then fold but I don't see enough evidence to make me believe that you are beat.

    When you get to this river it's a bit unpleasant. You've got to call 1600 to win 4100 so better than 2.5/1. We should never have got to this point but saying that is no reason to now make another mistake and make a bad call or a bad fold. Essentially you need to beat 2/7 of his range to break even in this spot. He's unlikely to be bluffing after you called his turn bet for so much of your stack but equally he was never likely to check a value hand on the river and risk either you checking behind when he has a monster, or you shoving behind when he has a slightly marginal hand, so his bet isn't necessarily huge strength. I would say you're much more likely to be behind than ahead here but he could perhaps be betting here with AJ, though that may have 3-bet pre-flop.

    The only question now is whether those AJ's or some weird, unpredictable meta-game play make up 2/7 of his range for the bet on the river. I would expect that they don't to be honest so, in a vacuum, I'd say a fold to this river bet is correct...

    Folding the river is what I would advise after you got into this situation but by focusing on your play on the river you're overlooking the big mistakes you made in the hand up to that point. You should never have got to this river without your money in the middle.

  • edited June 2012
    Horribly played.

    Your stack is 2300 right?, so 11 bbs?...Allin preflop
    As played bet the flop!. Why are you checking behind so any worse hand can catch up.
    As played shove allin turn!, why leave so little behind.

    Misplayed every street in my opinion.
  • edited June 2012
    he had 2 pair sporny said i checked flop for pot control and not heart on turn im firing but summit didnt add up i know im beat on river with ak 100 per cent im beat 
  • edited June 2012
    When the pot is 40% of your stack I think it's a little bit too late to be worrying about pot control. Even if the pot was only 4% of your stack you ought to be betting this flop for value - charging draws and protecting your hand.

    I think you've got to accept that you murdered this hand. I'm not trying to sound cruel but attempting to justify your play suggests that you're not recognising your mistakes.
  • edited June 2012
    In Response to Re: Is this a call on the river?:
    he had 2 pair sporny said i checked flop for pot control and not heart on turn im firing but summit didnt add up i know im beat on river with ak 100 per cent im beat 
    Posted by IDONKCALLU

    You cant pot control with an 11 bb stack!
  • edited June 2012

    Just shove pre as it makes life sooooooooooooooo much easier.

  • edited June 2012
    In Response to Re: Is this a call on the river?:
    In Response to Re: Is this a call on the river? : You cant pot control with an 11 bb stack!
    Posted by Spad3s
     
    +1... Didn't mention it in my first post, as just commented on as played. But with your stack, its all in preflop, or all in on flop as next best.. No pot control ever with your stack.
  • edited June 2012

    Also did the fact it was the money bubble that stopped you going for it??

    If so even more of a reason to shove pre as hes going to have to have a very strong hand to call you.

  • edited June 2012

    You are beat on the river but even the small chance your not. so little information you cant call anyway i think the check on flop is really bad. thats what has cost you the pot free cards. if the guy has A with q of hearts dont worry about the pot controll when 1) You have a Big Hand you dont want to try and keep pot small 2)you have hardly any chips. with a short stack on A high board and top kicker lick ur lips get the money in the way you played it looked like u was scared to get your money in and if you had checked and heart came on the turn all you would be saying now is oooops. now u cant bet or call.
     so yes fold river forget pot odds cuz we know you are beat but bet the flop next time

  • edited June 2012

    shove pre, next case

    you can mr to induce, but bet bet bet bet if called, never check that flop

  • edited June 2012
    ok ok i played it wrong in a normal mtts i play this so different im bet bet shove if no heart on trun on river but stacks im pretty much guarenteed a cash as theres a shorty with only like 800 so i can make a fold here and cash if it wasnt cash bubble im shoving the turn or flop all day long cash bubble made me play it bad agreed 
  • edited June 2012
    i would take my medicine here and hope he shows up with busted flush draw or a weird q, he could have a bluff also as you checked flop, and left the door open in his mind maybe
  • edited July 2012
    Shove pre

    B/c flop

    As played fold river
  • edited July 2012
    Shove pre... if not shove flop
  • edited July 2012
    difficult to comment on river as i never get that far in this situation :(

    however looks like the point has been made! Shove pre!
  • edited July 2012
    13bbs?  Shove pre hope worse calls.
Sign In or Register to comment.