dym bubble play, what would you do?

JAM888

£1 dym on the bubble, big blind 300, big stck opens for 900, i intend to shove my last 650 or so chips, but another short stack shoves for around 900 chips, i thought for a minute, and decided to let it go, and hopefully the ss gets knocked out? what would you do in this spot?

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalancedragon1964Small blind 150.00150.005925.00JAM888Big blind 300.00450.00650.00 Your hole cardsK8   felly777Raise 900.001350.003220.00glynkAll-in 855.002205.000.00

Lambert180

If you have more than the shorty that shoves, I call cos it's 2 chances to knock him out.

If you're the shortest of the lot and will need to beat both players to survive, then fold.

JAM888

In Response to Re: dym bubble play, what would you do?:

If you have more than the shorty that shoves, I call cos it's 2 chances to knock him out. If you're the shortest of the lot and will need to beat both players to survive, then fold.
Posted by Lambert180

thx lambert, is this a standard line? i had 650 back and 300 in the blind 950 total, ss shoved for 850, so you dont think folding carrys any merit, considering the big stacks hand should hold up a higher % of time?

Lambert180

Well the possible outcomes are...

A) you fold, and big stack wins, so you've cashed but would have lost nothing anyway by calling if you're not the shortest stack.

you fold, and big stack loses, you're really in trouble now cos shorty just doubled up and you have 2BB. This is doubly depressing if you calling would have knocked out the shorty.

C) You call and the shorty happens to beat you both and you get knocked out, but as he was gonna win the hand, he'd have doubled up and you'd have 2BB left so you're pretty much screwed anyway lol.

It's pretty standard to attempt to 'double team' against the shorty because even if he has a complete monster like QQ, against 2 opponents the odds aren't that bad of it getting cracked. I know it's all your stack with a junk-ish hand but if shorty wins, you're as good as out anyway, so you're massively improving the odds of shorty getting knocked out.

IDONKCALLU

standard fold hope n prey tha guy that went all in gets called and and the all in guy loses easy cash tbh if this a dym bubble the guy who jammed shouldnt even be jamming with aces as u are the short stack u need to double up not him its all about survival on the bubble 

EvilPingu

I'm embarassed to say that I don't actually know the answer to this - IDCU's suggestion of folding sounds like the most obvious thing to do. However, Lambert's reasons for calling make a lot of sense, and is what I'd probably do.

Batkin88

You cant fold here because of blind sizes if he doubles up your screwed anyway call and hope both are live which is likely anyway. Or atleast your 8 is

TWRAMYEP

call

1267

call call call call call call .  snap call. snap. call call call.

splashies

Easy call

unknown_username

In Response to Re: dym bubble play, what would you do?:

standard fold hope n prey tha guy that went all in gets called and and the all in guy loses easy cash tbh if this a dym bubble the guy who jammed shouldnt even be jamming with aces as u are the short stack u need to double up not him its all about survival on the bubble 
Posted by IDONKCALLU

the all in was an under-call so no issue there.

i probably call, as your equity in the DYM is so low anyway and this is a good opportunity to bust. you only have to worry about the shortstacks hand not holding up and even if he has AA his equity against 2 players drops dramatically.

so - what happened?

unknown_username

however if u have >4bb i snap fold and shove ATC at every opportunity if he doubles.

SHANXTA

In Response to Re: dym bubble play, what would you do?:

If you have more than the shorty that shoves, I call cos it's 2 chances to knock him out. If you're the shortest of the lot and will need to beat both players to survive, then fold.
Posted by Lambert180

this

Luke_Jones

Double up tourney i think you must fold i can't see a good reason for calling i know if you call it's more chance of the ss getting knocked out if you have more chips you can take the risk but if you call and ss wins you will be the next one gone and if he wins when you fold you still have good chance to make the money 

Fold everytime  

Luke_Jones

In Response to Re: dym bubble play, what would you do?:

Double up tourney i think you must fold i can't see a good reason for calling i know if you call it's more chance of the ss getting knocked out if you have more chips you can take the risk but if you call and ss wins you will be the next one gone and if he wins when you fold you still have good chance to make the money  Fold everytime  
Posted by Luke_Jones

Sorry Button player i mean not the SS

JAM888

AM888Fold    felly777Unmatched bet 45.002160.003265.00felly777Show9A   glynkShow3K   Flop  8K4   Turn  K   River  2   glynkWinThree Kings2160.00 2160.00PrevClose windowNext

JAM888

I did fold.  had trouble pasting the rest of hand

Thx for all your views, 60% of the time a9 holds up, meaning i cash 60% of time by folding vs calling being 3 way and a 20% dog.

I think i would fold again in this spot, but it is close, still not sure really lol, thx all

Lambert180

This is exactly the reason why you call, because the big stack could very well be ahead but he only wins 60% of the time, which means 40% of the time, you're screwed.

Assuming you have the shorty covered, it doesn't matter if you're a 20% dog, you don't need to win, you just need to beat the shorty.

K3s v A9s = pretty decent chance of winning

K3s v K8 v A9s = VERY slim chance of winning.

splashies

In Response to Re: dym bubble play, what would you do?:

I did fold.  had trouble pasting the rest of hand Thx for all your views, 60% of the time a9 holds up, meaning i cash 60% of time by folding vs calling being 3 way and a 20% dog. I think i would fold again in this spot, but it is close, still not sure really lol, thx all
Posted by JAM888

What????

Why have you chose to ignore the advice on two of the best dym players on the site (shanxta + 1267) along with other players who have tonnes of experience at dyms?

unknown_username

Its a defo call and Lambert has put it succinctly....the part about being the bigger stack of two short stacks being the crux....good hand to consider though.

DrRunGood

dym is about survival 5to last 3 and folding is surviving espec if some1 is at risk just hope you see the allin player go out

TWRAMYEP

In Response to Re: dym bubble play, what would you do?:

In Response to Re: dym bubble play, what would you do? : What???? Why have you chose to ignore the advice on two of the best dym players on the site (shanxta + 1267) along with other players who have tonnes of experience at dyms?
Posted by splashies

This

I was going to spend alot of my time proving/showing this is a call by math, icm calc. and equity calc. but doubt it will be worth it.

JAM888

In Response to Re: dym bubble play, what would you do?:

In Response to Re: dym bubble play, what would you do? : What???? Why have you chose to ignore the advice on two of the best dym players on the site (shanxta + 1267) along with other players who have tonnes of experience at dyms?
Posted by splashies

I think they know i hav nt ignored their advice, as i said before i still dont really know what to do in this spot! im stuck with the % ages at the moment, if i fold 60% of the time i will cash in this spot,

 if the a9 had of held up as it will most of the time, this hand would not be here. 

lol im not done with this hand yet, i am grateful for all views and advice, and i am still weighing this one up!

Yes and it is possible for your hero's to be wrong or have outdated views, "but i doubt it" make your own mind up!

1267

There is no weighing up to be done.  Unless you think 250 grams weighs the same as 1KG.  It is a snap call all day everyday.

Lambert180

There's alot to give you all the calculations in terms of ICM for when you fold and he wins but suffice to say....

1) If you fold, he will lose 60% of the time, but if you call he will lose about 80%+ of the time (I know what I prefer).

2) If you fold and he wins, then you're gonna cash a VERY small amount of the time anyway.

IDONKCALLU

i didnt see stacks before my post am i bad yeah + 1 to lambert as u have cover the short stack u have to call as paul said 2 vs 1 to win 

JAM888

thx lambert and everyone that took the time to kick me back on the right line, run good