good or bad fold?

IMikeyBoyI · July 2012

Other than not re-raising pre flop. As the raise was 5 blinds, i put my opponent could be on a ace something. and for me personally so many times ive had kings and people hit the ace all the time so this is why i just called (i know alot of players say bad play, but i dont agree :P ) ... but ye should i have folded here? i already put half my money in. to put half in then fold when raised all in at the end, i just felt my kings were no longer strong.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
IMikeyBoyI	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£9.55
scrumdown	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£8.72
	Your hole cards	K K
may13	Raise		£0.50	£0.65	£14.32
IMikeyBoyI	Call		£0.45	£1.10	£9.10
scrumdown	Fold
Flop
		8 7 Q
IMikeyBoyI	Bet		£0.50	£1.60	£8.60
may13	Call		£0.50	£2.10	£13.82
Turn
		5
IMikeyBoyI	Bet		£1.50	£3.60	£7.10
may13	Call		£1.50	£5.10	£12.32
River
		3
IMikeyBoyI	Bet		£2.55	£7.65	£4.55
may13	Raise		£10.20	£17.85	£2.12
IMikeyBoyI	Fold
may13	Muck
may13	Win		£9.43		£11.55
may13	Return		£7.65	£0.77	£19.20

IMikeyBoyI · July 2012

The best hand under mine was Ace Queen. Cant see anyone calling calling then going all in unless they have gone ahead here? or should i have just called as i was commited?

kidwiz10 · July 2012

Youve played this quite passivly

If you 3 bet to £1.50 pre then make it say £2.80 on flop youll have a much easier option on the turn of jamming

I think its a very bad fold to be honest

Youve put in half your stack and only way i can see you behind here it to a slowly trapped QQ ,88 , 77 , but you beating aq and a rare floated bluff which on this occasion cant see that bein the case

Personally tho i cant see why your bet folding if hes donkes 2 pair q3 or sumit like tht then so be it , afterall he did make it 5x raise pre to 50p so could be a slowly played AA looking for you to make the pot big for him

Im never ever folding

Curt360x27 · July 2012

Opponent has shown so much interest in his hand pre flop by raising 5x and you decide just to flat call? TBH makes no sense at all, you want to be getting as much money in as possible! The only reason to flat call is if youre playing someone who is hyper aggro or opens to 5x with his entire range.

Also if youre thinking like this, ' for me personally so many times ive had kings and people hit the ace all the time so this is why i just called (i know alot of players say bad play, but i dont agree :P )' then I'm afraid you're thinking about the game the completely wrong way.

AMYBR · July 2012

In Response to Re: good or bad fold?:

Opponent has shown so much interest in his hand pre flop by raising 5x and you decide just to flat call? TBH makes no sense at all, you want to be getting as much money in as possible! The only reason to flat call is if youre playing someone who is hyper aggro or opens to 5x with his entire range. Also if youre thinking like this, ' for me personally so many times ive had kings and people hit the ace all the time so this is why i just called (i know alot of players say bad play, but i dont agree :P )' then I'm afraid you're thinking about the game the completely wrong way.
Posted by Curt360x27

Obv +1

IMikeyBoyI · July 2012

In Response to Re: good or bad fold?:

Opponent has shown so much interest in his hand pre flop by raising 5x and you decide just to flat call? TBH makes no sense at all, you want to be getting as much money in as possible! The only reason to flat call is if youre playing someone who is hyper aggro or opens to 5x with his entire range. Also if youre thinking like this, ' for me personally so many times ive had kings and people hit the ace all the time so this is why i just called (i know alot of players say bad play, but i dont agree :P )' then I'm afraid you're thinking about the game the completely wrong way.
Posted by Curt360x27

today ive gone with your advice, 3 situations, ive had ks or acs. and ive lost going all in ... it is just a pair. sorry to play "wrong". but i aint got the money to keep shoving all my money in on a pair lol ... maybe my luck will change 1 day

percival09 · July 2012

you can't put villain on A readless because he raises 5x

3b pre

I call river. You're getting approx 4/1

UareLIMPER · July 2012

I am going to try answer this wihout being sarcastic or rude, but it is hard when you post stuff like this : "i put my opponent could be on a ace something. and for me personally so many times ive had kings and people hit the ace all the time so this is why i just called (i know alot of players say bad play, but i dont agree :P )"

You cannot look at the game like this, if you get KK in pre your happy about it, unless they have AA which is very unlucky. I dont care if they have A2 v your KK and you loose 10 times in a row (odds of this are rediculosly thin) its still profitable play. You have to raise pre to about £1.50 (then bet flop and look to get it in) unless he is aggro and will bet the streets for you and you are trying to trap him, simply because you fear an ace is not a good reason.

As played I wouldnt go broke as you have let any hand hes decided to bet to 50p pre with see a flop. I mabye bet flop and check/call the turn and river if its comfortable, but as I say I wouldnt play it like you did.

You need to stop thinking you can predict the future and play the %ages if you want to win Ca$H!

AMYBR · July 2012

Put simply: replace scared lines with value ones.

UareLIMPER · July 2012

In Response to Re: good or bad fold?:

Put simply: replace scared lines with value ones.
Posted by AMYBR

ye

IMikeyBoyI · July 2012

thanks for your imput

if that player was losing to my kings. he was very brave to go all in after i was controlling the pot and looking quite strong. Ill call next time and be stronger pre flop

AMYBR · July 2012

In Response to Re: good or bad fold?:

thanks for your imput if that player was losing to my kings. he was very brave to go all in after i was controlling the pot and looking quite strong. Ill call next time and be stronger pre flop
Posted by IMikeyBoyI

Nice post. Tbh I think people reach a level of technical aptitude/experience and forget what it was like before they had a solid understanding of strong odds/tactical based poker.

Understanding equity and how ggod practices reward over large volume takes away the decion making process for a lot of people who have studied the game in depth and have become experienced (in spots such as these)

Everyone is on a curve, its kind of natural for people to forget that these things that they take for granted now werent once quite so straightforward, me included. Have to admit have felt myself gettig frustrated in last few months.

But simply taking all the fearful lines out of your game and solely thinking of what gives us the most value, most of the time will just improve your game massively. Win or lose. It really is immaterial if they bink or have you crushed to begin with (stack size specific obv for latter).

IMikeyBoyI · July 2012

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
danchuchu	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£12.71
jazzychoi	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£26.10
	Your hole cards	7 A
IMikeyBoyI	Call		£0.10	£0.25	£15.41
bigrick91	Fold
pengeboy	Fold
mancity300	Raise		£0.40	£0.65	£1.69
danchuchu	Call		£0.35	£1.00	£12.36
jazzychoi	Call		£0.30	£1.30	£25.80
IMikeyBoyI	Call		£0.30	£1.60	£15.11
Flop
		7 10 A
danchuchu	Check
jazzychoi	Check
IMikeyBoyI	Bet		£0.80	£2.40	£14.31
mancity300	Fold
danchuchu	Fold
jazzychoi	Raise		£3.20	£5.60	£22.60
IMikeyBoyI	Raise		£4.80	£10.40	£9.51
jazzychoi	All-in		£22.60	£33.00	£0.00
IMikeyBoyI	All-in		£9.51	£42.51	£0.00
jazzychoi	Unmatched bet		£10.69	£31.82	£10.69
jazzychoi	Show	10 10
IMikeyBoyI	Show	7 A
Turn
		J
River
		3
jazzychoi	Win	Three 10s	£30.42

lol

AMYBR · July 2012

I mean here,we have to know why we are clicking back flop. Is it for value? information? to get oppo to wig out?

What will oppo infer from our bet? Would we ever click back AK here? What hands does he c/r 4bet shove here? Dont get me wrong it is ugly and a cooler. But we never give ourself chance not lose max, or value town oppo when he has a better A or is committed to barrell.

Lol @ nl10 though I prob get it in too though. Just not in this way

.

UL.

IMikeyBoyI · July 2012

i see people going all in with a pair ... only way i was losing there was against 3 of a kind. should i have folded once he raised so strong? every time som 1s strong fold? ... seems its the best option to me haha

... i wouldnt be down tonite if i was careful n e way. ah well. try again tomorrow i suppose ha

AMYBR · July 2012

yes but do you see ppl check raising then 4 bet shoving with 1 pair?

Have to play our oppos likely holding. Do we want him to have to fold a bluff or AK/Q/J/9 107 or when trying to force through Q's 107. Prob going broke anyway. But balance it with going for max value vs hands we crush.

If oppo is suuuuuuuuuuppper bad and we think we can get it in vs those ranges on flop then its fine in a vacuum. But vs a range of players we'll just lose value or get owned. As played flat flop c/r, or shove with specific reads.

jams88 · July 2012

I think you got the jist about the message with kings so i'll start witht he A7s hand yes it does become a cooler on the flop but the main mistake in this hand was preflop. Limping under the gun (1st to act after the blinds) is a terrible play with pretty much any hand. I don't mean to sound insulting but do you know about position? Put simply this is the worst postion pre flop and one of the worst postflop to play a hand from because you will always have to act 1st and predict how opponant will react. For this reason hands such as A7 don't play well from here as it is easily dominated by a higher ace which our opponant could have and just call our bets raises us when he sees fit if we don't hit our miricle 2 pair. When you enter a hand in cash poker if you are the 1st to enter the pot you should always be bringing it in for a raise this will help narrow down the hands our opponant has when/if he calls so we can have a better idea what we are up aginst. it also helps us grow the pot for when we hopefully win the hand.

Basically you shouldn't be limping in if you want to play the a7s raise pre but a fold is better imo from this position on the table. If you had folded you wouldnt have got into the cooler and still have all your money

Fabraclass · July 2012

In Response to good or bad fold?:

Other than not re-raising pre flop. As the raise was 5 blinds, i put my opponent could be on a ace something. and for me personally so many times ive had kings and people hit the ace all the time so this is why i just called (i know alot of players say bad play, but i dont agree :P ) ... but ye should i have folded here? i already put half my money in. to put half in then fold when raised all in at the end, i just felt my kings were no longer strong. Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance IMikeyBoyI Small blind £0.05 £0.05 £9.55 scrumdown Big blind £0.10 £0.15 £8.72 Your hole cards K K may13 Raise £0.50 £0.65 £14.32 IMikeyBoyI Call £0.45 £1.10 £9.10 scrumdown Fold Flop 8 7 Q IMikeyBoyI Bet £0.50 £1.60 £8.60 may13 Call £0.50 £2.10 £13.82 Turn 5 IMikeyBoyI Bet £1.50 £3.60 £7.10 may13 Call £1.50 £5.10 £12.32 River 3 IMikeyBoyI Bet £2.55 £7.65 £4.55 may13 Raise £10.20 £17.85 £2.12 IMikeyBoyI Fold may13 Muck may13 Win £9.43 £11.55 may13 Return £7.65 £0.77 £19.20
Posted by IMikeyBoyI

Fold mate because.

1 You are only really beating one hand that imaybe raising the river for value ie AQ.

2 They are extremely unlikely to be bluffing. They would have been far more likely to raise the flop or turn if they were bluffing.

3 You are losing to a large number of hands that would raise the river for value.

In terms of re raising pre, you can't let bad experiences in poker deter you from making, what you know to be the best play, So def re raise mate.

good or bad fold?

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