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MTT hand, 8's facing 16x 3b shove and cold call behind.....
I'd been playing vvv aggressive on this table opening loads of hands.
Big blind is loose/agro/spewwwwy.
Short stack who rejams has been away for alot of the tournament, his 16xbb 3b range is probably a standard 1.
Not sure about the cold call behind I've no reads on the guy still don't even recognise his name.
It's a low stakes tournament with lots of loose/passive players. What kinda hands would you expect to see here, and what's my best play against it?
Call/shove/fold?
| Player | Action | Cards | Amount | Pot | Balance |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| El_Mogul | Small blind | 50.00 | 50.00 | 5890.00 | |
| three33320 | Big blind | 100.00 | 150.00 | 11860.24 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| DOHHHHHHH | Raise | 300.00 | 450.00 | 4317.75 | |
| cenachav | All-in | 1620.00 | 2070.00 | 0.00 | |
| tracybabe | Fold | ||||
| jock197 | Call | 1620.00 | 3690.00 | 7042.00 | |
| El_Mogul | Fold | ||||
| three33320 | Fold | ||||
| DOHHHHHHH |
Comments
Plus you know you can't just call as you will hate most flops.
I guess you could shove hoping the bb folds and you are racing vs ak aq etc vs the allin guy?
Still think it's a fold though.
Fold because of the call by Jock as set-mining then in effect.
Cenachav may be re-stealing with csi=11 and as you've been aggro , he may put you on an opening range of over 15% However, if it was just you and him, even if he had you as high as opening with 40% then his 13% all-in as you'd expect for csi=11 is still a 62:38 favourite and against 88 has almost exactly the same equity so a fold is in order even if its just two of you.
Without Jock, odds of approx 1.25 to 1 does not warrant the call but if average stack is much higher it may be worth it to increase your stack by 50%. You may feel that your stack size is losing its fold equity value and is worth the punt now rather than slave away trying to build it gradually.More of a 'how lucky do i feel ?' moment with versus two highers probably.
TBH, i'm not sure if this does make sense as i'm just getting into ranges etc and i'd appreciate your opinion even if its a snigger Dohhhhhh...all the best.
but this is a fold JJ imo because you can find a better spot.. the cold callers range includes hands u lose to and if they have overs its a good chance cenachav has at least 1 over which means ur not getting it in in that great a shape.
never call its a fold or ship obv.. i lean towards fold tho
It's marginal there is no right or wrong. But for the fun factor call and shove blind anyflop
+ He has over 40bbs, if he had less than 20 then maybe its more of a shove??
Hi Greghogg
Well you were right..it was blunt but was it helpful to a forum member, ie myself, who is just trying to improve his knowledge to be able to play with better players sometime? Say what you don't understand or correct my thoughts.
After a year starting with Harrington and largely fit/fold poker, i've seen an improvement and wanted to consider the mathematical side more considering opening ranges, re-steals with a certain csi value and consideration of effective stack sizes and consideration of opponents image of you affecting teir opinion of Dohhhhh's opening raise range.
I've read some books and i'm enjoying trying to understand it but greg just putting "I don't understand a word of what you say" hardly helps, does it? I've seen you on Sky and you come across as a really nice guy with good poker knowledge so i take it what i'm putting is hopeless. Maybe you'd like to tell me why? Don't be afraid...give me both barrels. I really am fine with it.
If its not a resteal or whatever please say. I was only trying to look at it through pokerstove and the equity possible ranges would have and then compare that to Dohhhhh's actual hand 88. If i did it wrong or indeed shouldn't have done it at all then please say.
I did put IMO a fold because of Jock and then was just considering if it was only Cenachav with a smaller effective stack size. Dohhhhhhhi is a very good player and my advice is more of an opinion really. I was cheeky enough to ask his thoughts on what i'd put.
Personally i find playing post flop more complicated and involving difficult decisions so the range thing was trying to narrow down a players possible hands. Here, yes, its not so advanced as its call/fold/shove and i gave my opinion.
All the best Greg. I've not taken offence. I just want help and pushing in the right direction.
To be honest, after seeing verbal 'brawls' erupt on the forum over innocuous comments taken out of context, i'm in favour of Sky bringing out emoticons ith faces on to show if you are being nice, nasty, sarcastic, bragging, bad beating, taking a sly swipe etc....................................
.................all those in favour say "I"!!! Cheers
cold caller may fold better prs, but I don't think so
@prof
just stove ranges of prs and broadway overs versus Dohhh hand
does Dohhh have any FE when he shoves versu cold caller and how much
the shover may have 7's< so......figure that in
ps. Greg doesn't understand a lot tbh
I have the same situation recently in the DTD and shover had 5's and cold caller had AJ - I had 9's and shoves but the stacks may have been shallower
Cheers. Thanks a lot. I'm only trying to look at it in a mathematical way as an ex teacher as a book i've been reading recently really put a lot of its hand analysis in this way. Stuff you couldn't do at table but do afterwards to get more accustomed to these situations. I just thought Greg was saying that it was complete rubbish and i wanted him and other experienced players to say why? I was only having a go, giving my opinion and seeking corrections etc
i was saying i didnt understand what u were saying.. i was not in the top set in maths at school!
that sort of stuff goes above my head, i try not to complicate things. i go with my instinct and in this situation i think fold, i cant back it up with any sort of mathamatical theory soz
Hi Greg
I didn't really think you were having a go. Just that you seem knowledgeable in the game so i would have been happy to get a detailed 'slating' as it were. I'm not even sure whether considering ranges is the right thing at low lstakes anyway. After all, its expecting your opponent to play optimally too isn't it. With no huds on site(not that i've ever used one) i don't play with opponents for long enough to get a clear detailed idea of the hands they open/call with in various positions etc.
You've got your poker knowledge from playing and get an idea of what not to call with etc. I was just examining the 'pokerstove' way with a set of assumptions. TommyD is a maths teacher, isn't he? I wonder if he uses range balancing/judging techniques? Tommy? I'd say yes as he plays higher stakes with the same players regularly so can expect more optimal playing as well as having a better idea of his opponents opening/calling/3-bet ranges etc. Anything that gives you an edge must be sought, mustn't it?
Anyway, all the best and let's say hello at a table eh? I just hope its a FINAL one!! Ha
Easy call v cenachav every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Agree with the others, cold call by jock makes it a fold without seriously good reads.