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Omaha cash is this a call on the turn?
I know im behind on the turn as i think opponent has hit hes str8 but has he gave me right price to call to hit my house JiroubouSmall blind £0.10£0.10£7.23TalonBig blind £0.20£0.30£66.54 Your hole cardsK47K terrier922Fold dogcharlieCall £0.20£0.50£19.76niko38Fold IDONKCALLUCall £0.20£0.70£32.31JiroubouCall £0.10£0.80£7.13TalonCheck Flop 47K JiroubouCheck TalonCheck dogcharlieCheck IDONKCALLUBet £0.60£1.40£31.71JiroubouFold TalonFold dogcharlieCall £0.60£2.00£19.16Turn 6 dogcharlieCheck IDONKCALLUBet £1.20£3.20£30.51dogcharlieRaise £5.60£8.80£13.56
Comments
The reason he probly doesn't have a set is down to combinatorics- There are only 2 combo's of sets here as we hold 7&4. The other reason he never has a set is because he c/r THIS turn.
Multi way you know so many pair/2pr/wrap kind of hands will check call this flop and that is pretty much the worst turn. I agree to check behind the turn and hope to get a bit of value from 2pr hands if checked to on river, but this is a b/f as played.
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JiroubouCheck TalonCheck dogcharlieCheck IDONKCALLUBet £0.60£1.40£31.71JiroubouFold TalonFold dogcharlieCall £0.60£2.00£19.16Turn- https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/club.gif'); display: block; border: 1px solid #9bc3e5; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat" class="club">6
dogcharlieCheck IDONKCALLUBet £1.20£3.20£30.51dogcharlieRaise £5.60£8.80£13.56IDONKCALLUCall £4.40£13.20£26.11River- https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/spade.gif'); background-color: #ffffff; display: block; border: 1px solid #9bc3e5; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat" class="spade">6
dogcharlieBet £13.20£26.40£0.36IDONKCALLUCall £13.20£39.60£12.91dogcharlieShow- https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/spade.gif'); display: block; border: 1px solid #9bc3e5; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat" class="spade">8
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IDONKCALLUShow- https://www.skypoker.com/img/site/heart.gif'); background-color: #ffffff; display: block; border: 1px solid #9bc3e5; width: 15px; text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em; background-position: 1px 100%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat" class="heart">K
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IDONKCALLUWinFull House, Kings and 6s£38.70 £51.61The fact that we hold the 7 and the 4 makes us think that our hand is stronger than it is when in reality it has removed 2 of our outs but at the same time it has also improved those outs to guaranteed nut outs. We know that any 4,7 or K gives the nuts and a good chance that a 6 does as well.
So assuming that we have all nut outs then there are 8 outs(not quite as good as the 10 possible without the 7 and 4 dead in the hand). This means that assuming we are up against the made straight we are 16% or 5 to 1 to win the hand.
Calling 4-40 into a pot of 8-80 makes it exactly 2 to 1 odds. Which without factoring in implied odds means that the odds are not there to make the call. With working on the implied odds you would need to hit your card and get another 12-20 paid on the river to make it a viable call. So now it comes down to opponent. Are you up against an opponent who will pay off pot or better when they lose the nuts on the river. So oop this is probably a fold and in position very marginal.
This of course is all assuming that they have the straight and not just a wrap draw or underset, which are both possible. The best way to make sure you have the odds in this situation would be to repot it on the turn and get it all in at this stage whilst you know roughly where you are rather than hoping for the river to hit and your opponent to pay you off.
The other thing is that i dont like the limp pre allowing a complete fish in the BB to see a cheap flop.
The idea of checking behind to keep pot control and waiting for a good river is understandable but probably a bit past paranoid and into the scared area of play.
The main thing i have noticed with most new players to omaha is the fact that they do the betting on the wrong streets and leave a lot of value behind. The bet when they hit a draw and not when they pick up a draw etc. The main two differences between the betting between PLO and NLHE is the limitations due to pot and also the fact that you lose an effective street of betting. In most PLO hands you can be called on both the flop and turn but rarely on the river, unless the have hit their draw. Drawing games tend to go that way. Which means you can only rely on getting paid on 3 of the 4 betting rounds when holding big. Saving your bets for the river rarely works because they have either missed and will not pay you or you have been oputdrawn.
In this particular hand i would rather bet/fold the turn than check to get a cheap river. By checking when you hit you will only get paid off by a bad player overvaluing worse hands. Also you will be going to the river with a big hand and a pot of only 10BB. I would always favour the more aggressive line in these circumstances but that is just me.
There are merits to your particular line but it is just not one that i would consider.
Ok, say we get repotted, do you like a call or a fold? If so and say the river is a complete brick, how are we playing the river against an unknown?
back to the situation in hand. The repot could mean many things including undersets and draws. With the opponent having just about pot left behind if we call then it changes the dynamics totally.
We have the standard options of call raise or fold. For me in this situation the call is an absolute no no. The odds are not there and realistically neither are the implied odds. So this leaves either raise or fold, and to be honest i am torn between the 2. I think at a push i would raise but a lot would depend on the opponent and any reads i have on them. Dont like the idea of difficult river decisions so would take that away by making the decision on the turn.
As far as the river is concerned, looking at the board there. i can only see a few possible brick cards. A,Q and J. Any other card would complete even more draws, so total bricks are unlikely.If we did call the turn raise and a brick camr down we are up against an opponent who is pot committed and therefore will always be asked the question by them. So it would just come down to do we think we are ahead on the turn, if we thought we wre then that is when we should have got the money in, if we thought we were behind then we have to fold.
But that is just hypothetical because i would make sure i did not get myself into that scenario by making my decision on the turn.
I must add for the record that i do have reads on this particular opponent. He was the one that i got most of my stack off. I had watched his play quite carefully and found a great spot against him. But my answers on this thread have left that knowledge aside to concentrate on solid omaha strategy.