WAS I RIGHT?

chirker

WAS PLAYING 2p/4p CASH TABLE, JUST JOINED THE TABLE WITH 2.20.  FIRST HAND I DOUBLE UP  WITH POCKET AA's, SECOND HAND I GET QQ, FIRST TO ACT I RAISE 16p , 3 PLAYERS BEHIND ME GO ALL IN, THERE IS ABOUT £12 IN THE POT , I,M THINKING ONE OF THEM MUST HAVE AA OR KK , SO I FOLD. THEY TURN OVER K9, 99 AND A4, 2 QUEENS COME ON THE FLOP AND I'M GUTTED. I SPEND THE NEXT 10 MINUTES THINKING I SHOULD HAVE CALLED, WAS WANDERING WHAT OTHER PEOPLE WOULD HAVE DONE?

Torryladd

Long term it would be right decision to fold i think, 4 handed your qs dont look so good

Talon

 If i were you i would have taken my money and walked away from the table. When you get that sort of aggression and overbetting on very marginal hands then you are truely sat at the table of bad beats. That table became a bingo table and there is no scope for playing proper poker on it.

  So walk away with your improved stack and find a table where they are playing poker not bingo. There is no strategy you can use against that kind of play so it is best not to get involved.

Hale72

Were you right in folding, yes. Queens against multiple opponents lose a lot of the original value. 
You need to be shoving first.

Were you right in putting this thread in general poker chat instead of poker strategy. No.

unknown_username

If i were you i would have taken my money and walked away from the table. When you get that sort of aggression and overbetting on very marginal hands then you are truely sat at the table of bad beats. That table became a bingo table and there is no scope for playing proper poker on it.

  So walk away with your improved stack and find a table where they are playing poker not bingo. There is no strategy you can use against that kind of play so it is best not to get involved.

+1

Wilhelm

I think that Queens have a lot of equity against four players at a 2p 4p table.  A lot of under pairs are calling, a lot of aces are calling, KQs, KJs, QJs, K 10s, Q 10s, J 10s, sometimes even weak kings, so I'd probably call.  But what do i know?  I've lost a lot of money trying to play properley at 2p 4p tables...

chirker

In Response to Re: WAS I RIGHT?:

 If i were you i would have taken my money and walked away from the table. When you get that sort of aggression and overbetting on very marginal hands then you are truely sat at the table of bad beats. That table became a bingo table and there is no scope for playing proper poker on it.   So walk away with your improved stack and find a table where they are playing poker not bingo. There is no strategy you can use against that kind of play so it is best not to get involved.
Posted by Talon

YES I DID LEAVE , FAR TOO LOOSE FOR ME

scrumdown

i  would  have  called    at  that  level   stakes   push  with  any  two

Aski

Grrrr the post got move just as I pressed enter to post my reply

Ok Firstly as Wilhelm says at this level there are lots of players who make dubious moves with any two cards, however against 3 other opponents, Queens do not hold up well.

As an example, if you put your 3 opponents on the following hands

7 4 os

2 3 os

9 t os

Queen are only a 57% favourite to hold up.

So even if they were playing some of the worst hands possible, Queens are only a slight favourite.

If one of those holdings contains an Ace, then you only have at best a 49% chance of winning. So again we still have 3 very raggy hands to play against , and yet Queens are now only at best 50/50 to hold up.

However in that position, you have to assume that one player has an ace, another a medium pair, and the third holding say J T os, then the chances of queens holding up is reduced to 44%.

Without any information about the players you are correct to fold, however even if you knew these were teh fishiest of fish, then queens would only be a slight favourite, and thus I wouldnt say that folding was wrong even in that situation

Aski

LadyFingrs

In Response to Re: WAS I RIGHT?:

Grrrr the post got move just as I pressed enter to post my reply Ok Firstly as Wilhelm says at this level there are lots of players who make dubious moves with any two cards, however against 3 other opponents, Queens do not hold up well. As an example, if you put your 3 opponents on the following hands 7 4 os 2 3 os 9 t os Queen are only a 57% favourite to hold up. So even if they were playing some of the worst hands possible, Queens are only a slight favourite. If one of those holdings contains an Ace, then you only have at best a 49% chance of winning. So again we still have 3 very raggy hands to play against , and yet Queens are now only at best 50/50 to hold up. However in that position, you have to assume that one player has an ace, another a medium pair, and the third holding say J T os, then the chances of queens holding up is reduced to 44%. Without any information about the players you are correct to fold, however even if you knew these were teh fishiest of fish, then queens would only be a slight favourite, and thus I wouldnt say that folding was wrong even in that situation Aski
Posted by Aski

But, and we dont know the stack sizes, we only need 25% pot equity to call.

So the fact we have 44% isn't like, awww man, we lose more than 1/2 the time, it's like *pants explosion* massive massive equity bucks.

@ 2p/4p i'm never folding QQ+

Aski

In Response to Re: WAS I RIGHT?:

In Response to Re: WAS I RIGHT? : But, and we dont know the stack sizes, we only need 25% pot equity to call. So the fact we have 44% isn't like, awww man, we lose more than 1/2 the time, it's like *pants explosion* massive massive equity bucks. @ 2p/4p i'm never folding QQ+
Posted by LadyFingrs

Thanks for the reply LF.

I have to admit that this is a side of my game that I am trying to improve on, its not something that comes to me naturally, so just so I understand what you are saying here, id be grateful if you could confirm or correct my understanding.

We have a pot of around £12, if we are concerned about all 3 opponents we presume that they have all put in around an equal amount  of £4 each, so it would cost us £4 to call with our queens, making a total pot of £16.

We would win this pot around 40% of the time (this allows for AK to be held as opposed to just Ace rag), which would therefore gives us a positive expectation per hand of £6.40 (being 40% of £16), thus making the call a profitable play, as over 100 hands we would invest £400, but if we win 40% of those hands we get a return of £640,  giving us a profit of £240 overall)

Obviously if there is one large stack and the other 2 are short stacked, you need to call more, however as you are less worried about the short stacks beating you, due to their small investment, then you are assesing your chances of winning against just the one opponent, thus the increased investment is countered by improved odds against the main opponent.

If I've understood the situation and not made a total mess of getting it right in myhead, then yes I can see the reason for calling.

Aski

Hogg321

if it was higher stakes folding was definetly right

however 2p/4p i find if your in the action the previous hand and raise the next hand, some people at the lower stakes go "oh i have a read on this guy, how can he have 2 good hands in a row???"

I call, but hesitantly