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Is the river a bet/fold?

edited August 2012 in The Poker Clinic
Villain is a good solid reg, can be loose but not ultra loose.  Villain is a winning player at this level.  He knows me, I know him.  He used to not make too many moves against me but the dynamic has changed a little in the last couple of months, he's adding the odd move against me more and more.  All the usual critique is welcome.  I freely admit I have butchered this hand in several places.
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
TommyD Small blind  £1.00 £1.00 £722.90
Big blind  £2.00 £3.00 £496.90
 Your hole cards
  • 9
  • 8
   
TommyD Raise  £5.00 £8.00 £717.90
Call  £4.00 £12.00 £492.90
Flop
  
  • J
  • 7
  • 10
   
Check     
TommyD Bet  £9.00 £21.00 £708.90
Raise  £27.00 £48.00 £465.90
TommyD Raise  £50.00 £98.00 £658.90
Call  £32.00 £130.00 £433.90
Turn
  
  • A
   
Check     
TommyD Check     
River
  
  • J
   
Check     
TommyD Bet  £65.00 £195.00 £593.90
Raise  £242.00 £437.00 £191.90
TommyD ?

Comments

  • edited August 2012
    I saw this hand play out actually, was a strange one because the c/r seemed to come out of nowhere, the large c/r looked to me like he was trying to make up for lost value on the turn when you checked it back. Against this villain i'd be liable to give it some credit. 

    Can i ask why you didnt bet the turn, was it for deception / pot control. etc??

    I think far too often ppl put in large bets / raises on the flop with the nuts.. and as soon as they dont have the nuts anymore they shut down as if to say, well the pots big enough i'll just hope to get to showdown and win 50bb's. Yet there is still so much value in the hand at the point ppl shut down.

    When you check back the turn you are saying "hi i dont have the nuts anymore, but also i dont have any bluffs / semi bluffs" couple that with your small river lead and its screaming that you are going for thin value. You are kind of levelling yourself, under repping a hand on the turn then leading small on the river, you literally have no idea if you are inducing a bluff here or what..
  • edited August 2012
    Bit pointless of me to comment really without knowing what a standard SKY HU pre 3bet dynamic is like at 1/2 from winning reg, and what he'll 3b from the BB with eff stacks of 248bbs but i give him summin like 99+, KQ, KTs, AJ, ATs which seems meh okay.
     
    2.5x pre is fine imo, and good if we're raising a fair amount of buttons especially with hands that play well against his flatting range, small pairs, trashy suited As,Ks,Qs,Js, etc.
     
    3/4 on flop is fine IP when checked to, i prob make it like £6.50-8 if my keyboard is nearby and i can be botehrd to type. When pot is 21 and he c/r 3x
    I get excited but i'm never clicking it back with an SPR of 10:1... unless his steaming and this will induce a spite raise. Would much rather raise to like £90 or summin. 
     
    Turn; I dont quite understand the flop click back, check turn. Not sure what the plan is here......Only a K is worse then a A here imo, so i prob bet 65-90 now for protection, worst case scenario it'll block a lead from villain on river.
     
    River; as played, when board pairs i'm just checking behind and notching hand down to a misplayed flop. His hand looks insanely like JT,J7,77,(Possiby Jx as well i just dont know if he'll stack off with it here more than />20% of the time!!)... KQ if his a nit and not 3betting it pre.
  • edited August 2012
    raise more pre, bet more on flop, 3bet bigger if you 3bet, bet turn b/f river bigger.


    I can count on one hand the people i'd b/c vs on the river here on sky.
  • edited August 2012
    In Response to Re: Is the river a bet/fold?:
    raise more pre, bet more on flop, 3bet bigger if you 3bet, bet turn b/f river bigger. I can count on one hand the people i'd b/c vs on the river here on sky.
    Posted by beaneh

    why bother.....

    pretty much agree with TPTP on the hand...,is it a broken 6max table  or HU table vs reg..? reason being most 6max regs dont adjust ranges correctly for HU play so as TP says his hand is weigted towards J10,J7,77 based on river c/r.. hate flop 3 bet sizin given stacks and dont understand turn check after flop action.. however i would b/f river... 




  • edited August 2012
    3bet flop bigger

    Why no bet on turn? Clear bet IMO

    As played I think I call, but am far from qualified to advise on 200 hu. Bet river bigger
  • edited August 2012
    mistake here tommy when u raised the flop dnt understand why u not betting the turn here 
  • edited August 2012
    3- bet on the flop bigger .

    Sick   sigh fold
  • edited August 2012
    I think if you bet turn and get called you can check/fold the river. If getting raised on the turn just fold.
  • edited August 2012
    In Response to Re: Is the river a bet/fold?:
    I think if you bet turn and get called you can check/fold the river. If getting raised on the turn just fold.
    Posted by GreekWay
    I don't think you should fold the turn.
  • edited August 2012
    In Response to Re: Is the river a bet/fold?:
    In Response to Re: Is the river a bet/fold? : I don't think you should fold the turn.
    Posted by pr1nnyraid
    Well yeah, don't fold the turn ever considering you have the 2nd nuts.

    I'm 99.9% sure that Tommy is never folding the turn ever though
  • edited August 2012
    raise more flop
    bet turn

    sigh b/f river
  • edited August 2012
    In Response to Re: Is the river a bet/fold?:
    In Response to Re: Is the river a bet/fold? : Well yeah, don't fold the turn ever considering you have the 2nd nuts. I'm 99.9% sure that Tommy is never folding the turn ever though
    Posted by Lambert180
    I'll raise you 0.1% ;)
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