You need to be logged in to your Sky Poker account above to post discussions and comments.
You might need to refresh your page afterwards.
Sky Poker forums will be temporarily unavailable from 11pm Wednesday July 25th.
Sky Poker Forums is upgrading its look! Stay tuned for the big reveal!
Playing the odds in a tournament
To what extent should you take your odds into account in a tournament? I'd like to raise this question in the form of a hand I played in a 2 x 9-handed table tournament which had just gone into final table, no real reads on any of the players.
Seat 1: Blandkjenn (4070 in chips)
Seat 2: Krotoff77777 (1830 in chips)
Seat 3: Xano_Iber (2190 in chips)
Seat 4: rangereux (2305 in chips)
Seat 6: Boney"B160 (5010 in chips)
Seat 7: Majalo (5000 in chips)
Seat 8: legiondepoka (4085 in chips)
Seat 9: D PitcherAK (2510 in chips)
Boney"B160: posts small blind 100
Majalo: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Majalo [Qh 9h]
legiondepoka: raises 400 to 600
D PitcherAK: folds
Blandkjenn: calls 600
Krotoff77777: folds
Xano_Iber: folds
rangereux: calls 600
Boney"B160: folds
Majalo: calls 400
My thinking here with the UTG raise was - well I'm folding Q9 suited here. However with 1900 in the pot and 400 to call I'm looking to hit my straight or flush possibilities or get out of the way.
*** FLOP *** [9s Jd 2d]
Now I instantly break with my plan because I catch a little bit of it and fire out the bet. I suppose I think with the preflop raising the only hands that would be ahead of me would be AJ A9 KJ QJ JJ 99 or maybe 22 from the UTG raiser and I'm not sure what the others are calling rather than raising with but hey, if I get an answer I'll know where I am
Majalo: bets 1000
legiondepoka: folds
D PitcherAK is disconnected
D PitcherAK is connected
Blandkjenn: calls 1000
rangereux: folds
Short of catching my set or 2 pair I'm checking with a view to fold
*** TURN *** [9s Jd 2d] [8c]
I'm done with this hand
Majalo: checks
Blandkjenn: bets 1000
And now comes the interesting bit. I'm being asked to call 1k into a pot of 5.5k. What's he called with preflop I wonder. I think at the time I put him on KJ or something but looking back now it could well be that he has a set. Anyway as I say at the time I'm thinking I'm beaten by a pair of jacks BUT now I have a gutshot straight draw. So if I have to beat a pair of jacks I can hit two 9s, three Qs or four Ts. Quick calculation says I have just under a 1 in 5 shot. This gives me the odds so I make the call.
Majalo: calls 1000
*** RIVER *** [9s Jd 2d 8c] [2c]
Majalo: checks
Blandkjenn: bets 1000
Majalo: folds
Uncalled bet (1000) returned to Blandkjenn
Blandkjenn collected 6500 from pot
So as would happen 4 out of 5 times I miss and am left with about half of my original stack, though still over 10bbs. My question is about that call on the turn. The first question is was I right about my 9 outs? Would they have been good or not? I'd love to see someone have a good guess at what he held because I don't know, but then I don't know the player. The second and main question is - Assuming I was right and that I had the odds is it the right play in this tournament? I know it would be in cash but now I'm in a much worse position than I was before and I've just given a grand in chips away on a 5 to 1 shot - how do you balance between having the odds and your tournament life. I think this is a big gray area for me at the moment and I'd love some responses from Sky's tournament greats.
Seat 1: Blandkjenn (4070 in chips)
Seat 2: Krotoff77777 (1830 in chips)
Seat 3: Xano_Iber (2190 in chips)
Seat 4: rangereux (2305 in chips)
Seat 6: Boney"B160 (5010 in chips)
Seat 7: Majalo (5000 in chips)
Seat 8: legiondepoka (4085 in chips)
Seat 9: D PitcherAK (2510 in chips)
Boney"B160: posts small blind 100
Majalo: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Majalo [Qh 9h]
legiondepoka: raises 400 to 600
D PitcherAK: folds
Blandkjenn: calls 600
Krotoff77777: folds
Xano_Iber: folds
rangereux: calls 600
Boney"B160: folds
Majalo: calls 400
My thinking here with the UTG raise was - well I'm folding Q9 suited here. However with 1900 in the pot and 400 to call I'm looking to hit my straight or flush possibilities or get out of the way.
*** FLOP *** [9s Jd 2d]
Now I instantly break with my plan because I catch a little bit of it and fire out the bet. I suppose I think with the preflop raising the only hands that would be ahead of me would be AJ A9 KJ QJ JJ 99 or maybe 22 from the UTG raiser and I'm not sure what the others are calling rather than raising with but hey, if I get an answer I'll know where I am
Majalo: bets 1000
legiondepoka: folds
D PitcherAK is disconnected
D PitcherAK is connected
Blandkjenn: calls 1000
rangereux: folds
Short of catching my set or 2 pair I'm checking with a view to fold
*** TURN *** [9s Jd 2d] [8c]
I'm done with this hand
Majalo: checks
Blandkjenn: bets 1000
And now comes the interesting bit. I'm being asked to call 1k into a pot of 5.5k. What's he called with preflop I wonder. I think at the time I put him on KJ or something but looking back now it could well be that he has a set. Anyway as I say at the time I'm thinking I'm beaten by a pair of jacks BUT now I have a gutshot straight draw. So if I have to beat a pair of jacks I can hit two 9s, three Qs or four Ts. Quick calculation says I have just under a 1 in 5 shot. This gives me the odds so I make the call.
Majalo: calls 1000
*** RIVER *** [9s Jd 2d 8c] [2c]
Majalo: checks
Blandkjenn: bets 1000
Majalo: folds
Uncalled bet (1000) returned to Blandkjenn
Blandkjenn collected 6500 from pot
So as would happen 4 out of 5 times I miss and am left with about half of my original stack, though still over 10bbs. My question is about that call on the turn. The first question is was I right about my 9 outs? Would they have been good or not? I'd love to see someone have a good guess at what he held because I don't know, but then I don't know the player. The second and main question is - Assuming I was right and that I had the odds is it the right play in this tournament? I know it would be in cash but now I'm in a much worse position than I was before and I've just given a grand in chips away on a 5 to 1 shot - how do you balance between having the odds and your tournament life. I think this is a big gray area for me at the moment and I'd love some responses from Sky's tournament greats.
Comments
personally I probably wouldnt have called preflop in BB because of the position you were in... but after that I'd of only raised 600 after the flop, if hes got a jack he'll probably come ott, 1000 is a scaryish amount and may think his kicker isnt too great,
but the check on the turn from you is a tad supicious, and if i was Blandkjenn I probably would of bet more than 1000 as i'd of seen the check as a weakness and dislike for the hand... but probably would of put another small 600 as a stopper bet on the turn, it may have worked in your favour in the long term as you are out of position it's harder to put you opponent on a hand, he could have been attempting to steal because of the check on the turn.. small stopper bets can often give you most information when out of position as better hands try to extract as much value as possible and he may have min-raised if beating you or chucked if he's still missed or thought you were trying to extract as much value as possible from him... or even called hoping for a draw card or more value for his hand..
I think the check on the turn was when you give away the hand personally.. because he could have had KQ 2 overcards, gutshot and been a bit of a loose player?
Its hard to really say though.. i'm not a seasoned pro, and only a beginner trying to improve myself.. it's a game of situations and sometimes you have to go with your instinct, even if the odds tell you differently!