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Master Cash Episode # 2 - Make Your Play TWO

Tikay10Tikay10
edited November 2009 in Poker Chat

Our second quiz this week is called, perhaps a little mischieviously....."MAXIMISING PROFITS". 

Blinds £0.50 £1.00, 10 seater.

Stacks CO £52.71.

BB £66.86

We have Ac Qd in the Cut Off.

We RAISE to £3.50.

The Very Active & Aggro BB smooths us. 

Flop = Ac, 3c, 4s.

BB Checks, we make a cbet of £6.25.

BB now Re-Pops it to £20. Ooh-er!

Do we......

a) Call

b) Shove

c) Fold.

Use the Vote Option, & explain your reaoning for your decision, please. Pretty simple one. On the face of it.....
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Comments

  • darichdarich
    edited November 2009
    He's aggro but he only smooth called pre flop - his check-raise is probably his standard play - I'm ahead of his range, and would expect him to have repotted pre flop with any hands above mine (ak etc), so I'd shove.
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  • SolarCarroSolarCarro
    edited November 2009
    I shove, he has been too active to only flat call with AK so unless he is playing ace rag I feel ahead,  SHOVE!!
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  • scotty77scotty77
    edited November 2009
    Shove.  Stacks are shallow, and he can do this with worse As/club draws/A + gutshot.

    Also the deck is rigged we have 2 A of clubs in the deck!
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  • namesb0ndnamesb0nd
    edited November 2009
    his agressive play makes this an easy decision for me,i shove.
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited November 2009
    Im   passing because if he's re-raised my bet of 6 50 to 20quid ..his next bet is  almost certainly all-in ,, They have me covered and although AQ is a good betting hand it's not a good calling hand .. and  I can find a better spot to 'maximise my profit' than this.
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  • MajjMajj
    edited November 2009
    He's got a huge huge range to do this with I reckon. He could easily have the other 2 Aces. He could also have absolute junk. If we shove all in we risk £43 -

    We win an extra £32 if he folds (He has a weak Ace, a lower pair or worse)

    We win an extra £61 if he calls with something we beat (AT, AJ) - This would include redraws such as trip aces or a higher 2 pair for instance

    We lose that £43 if he's beating us (2 pair, a set)

    I've probably got the numbers there pretty out but the point is that over time I think shoving is the best option, against that whole range we're making money. Get it in there, go on son.

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  • SwansFCSwansFC
    edited November 2009
    Definitely shove, his range is huge, he could have air, maybe a straight draw with a pair of Aces but I would be confident with him being aggressive and active, his range is so big, I am sure if he had AA or AK he would of repopped it pre flop.
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  • DiggerManDiggerMan
    edited November 2009

    mischieviously....."MAXIMISING PROFITS"??? More like mischeviously adding extra aces to the deck!!! two Ac!!! I didn't know you could hide cards up your sleeve when you're playing on line. How do you do that? ;)

    Seriously, I have to shove! If he's actually got a hand that's beating me, I'm just unfortunate, bearing in mind his possible range!

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  • BonnyBonzBonnyBonz
    edited November 2009
    Shove, no hesitation. Top pair & Q kicker against someone like that with a decent amount in the pot is good enough for me. You can't always wait til you've got the nuts, this looks like as good a time as any, it has to be the right move in the long run.
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  • LadyFingrsLadyFingrs
    edited November 2009
    Flat for all the reasons that people listed to call.

    Obv we are miles ahead of his range, but he can't call a shove with all his air (gutshots counting as air in this spot imho), but alot of the time villains like this will just bluff jam a turn thinking we might b/c 66-KK some % of the time.

    Flat call 100%
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  • MereNoviceMereNovice
    edited November 2009
    This one is pretty simple! ;-)
    You let the timer run down and call showing as much hesitancy as possible, possibly typing "Ummmmmmmmm" in the chat box if you're going for an Oscar.
    If he is really as active and aggro as you say, he will shove on any turn card and you call. If you've allowed him to hit his draw, it's just unfortunate.
    He's going to bet the turn card with any hand that would call a shove from you on the flop and it also gives him a chance to do his stack with a bluff so you get money that you wouldn't have got by shoving on the flop.
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  • dav1964dav1964
    edited November 2009
    DEFO ONLY FLAT CALL,AS SOME OTHERS HAVE STATED YOU NEED TO MAXIMISE URE PROFIT.STILL THOUGH 2X A CLUBS DOES LOOK RATHER FISHY,EVEN FOR NON CONSPIRACY THEORIST BELIEVERS.....LOL
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  • phil12ukphil12uk
    edited November 2009
    I want all my money in the middle here so i do the following:

    I call and then check turn regardless of card.  He's aggro and will fire - at which stage he's pot stuck and I shovel my chips in.

    If he's that aggro he may well fold if i reshove him on flop so i dangle the rope for him to do it to himself on the turn.
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  • Tikay10Tikay10
    edited November 2009

    Sorry about the deck having 2 Aces of Clubs! I asked Orford to help me with this, & he wrote it out.
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  • OMahonyOOMahonyO
    edited November 2009
    so which is the rogue ace of clubs.  the 1 on the flop or the 1 in ur hand.  I shove all day on a 2flush board against this villain.

    he cant be on a 5 of a kind draw as we have one of his outs
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  • GREGHOGGGREGHOGG
    edited November 2009
    In Response to Re: Master Cash Episode # 2 - Make Your Play TWO:
    I want all my money in the middle here so i do the following: I call and then check turn regardless of card.  He's aggro and will fire - at which stage he's pot stuck and I shovel my chips in. If he's that aggro he may well fold if i reshove him on flop so i dangle the rope for him to do it to himself on the turn.
    Posted by phil12uk
    This is a very cleaver way of playing it and i may well do this, but as im intrinsically an mtt player, my instincts say shove all in and take it down lol!
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  • OMahonyOOMahonyO
    edited November 2009
    In Response to Re: Master Cash Episode # 2 - Make Your Play TWO:
    I want all my money in the middle here so i do the following: I call and then check turn regardless of card.  He's aggro and will fire - at which stage he's pot stuck and I shovel my chips in. If he's that aggro he may well fold if i reshove him on flop so i dangle the rope for him to do it to himself on the turn.
    Posted by phil12uk
    I like this move but not sure I could bring myself to do it.

    Clubs is part of his range imo and I would not feel comfortable donking my chips into a 3 flush board to find out he has it.

    At least OTF you are pretty sure your`e getting your money in good.

    Also, if he is not on a club draw, then a club on the turn or river must be a scare card to him and may give him an excuse to get away from the hand.

    If he has been that agro, he may just think you are making a stand and are over repping your hand or under repping his, so may call you with top pair no kicker.

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  • 35suited35suited
    edited November 2009
    I voted for shove, after  reading some of the replys here I like the thinking behind calling, but im sticking to shoving.
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  • scotty77scotty77
    edited November 2009
    In Response to Re: Master Cash Episode # 2 - Make Your Play TWO:
    I want all my money in the middle here so i do the following: I call and then check turn regardless of card.  He's aggro and will fire - at which stage he's pot stuck and I shovel my chips in. If he's that aggro he may well fold if i reshove him on flop so i dangle the rope for him to do it to himself on the turn.
    Posted by phil12uk
    How can we check turn vesus the BB when we are CO?

    I see you becoming a member of 'Team Orford' has already eroded your poker brain after only one day!
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited November 2009

    I don't like this. I think his loose PF call has paid off. Possible 2 pair and flush draw, I fold.

    I see this as retaining rather than maximising profit.

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  • mabsuemabsue
    edited November 2009
    I flat call and hope he either checks the turn in which case i shove and take that option away from him (check raising) or i want maximum profits i have to believe i am ahead in which case i am calling whatever he bets on turn regardless
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  • UrdadiUrdadi
    edited November 2009
    I would shove. he didn't move before the turn so I don't have him on him on a big hand.

    I have the view that he is trying to steal.
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  • acebarry10acebarry10
    edited November 2009
    Hi

    Think hes got air, hes bluffing, our AQ is well ahead :)
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  • SHANXTASHANXTA
    edited November 2009
    flat call to represent KK downwards, let him think if he fires the £30 bet on the turn he can win it and then hope he does!
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  • LadyFingrsLadyFingrs
    edited November 2009
    I should move up to where they put me on exact hands imo.
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited November 2009
    Bump!
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited November 2009

    Personally, I again move my stack in. This is mainly due to my table image, and if i have been sat here for an hour or so, i will most likely have raised alot of pots and could possibly have raised the previous 2/3 pots in a row. When I have a hand such as AQ in this spot, weak aces will play back at me in exactly the same way, putting me on a huge range, and presuming their ace is good. Shove my stack in, the pot is big eough, no thoughts of slow playing. If I'm within my bankroll, losing a by in, although annoying, would not be disasterous. Move it in, take the pot down there and then, and raise the next one. ;)

    (or even better get a call from a frustrated, wound up battered and bruised player),

    DOHH
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  • phil12ukphil12uk
    edited November 2009
    In Response to Re: Master Cash Episode # 2 - Make Your Play TWO:
    Personally, I again move my stack in. This is mainly due to my table image, and if i have been sat here for an hour or so, i will most likely have raised alot of pots and could possibly have raised the previous 2/3 pots in a row. When I have a hand such as AQ in this spot, weak aces will play back at me in exactly the same way, putting me on a huge range, and presuming their ace is good. Shove my stack in, the pot is big eough, no thoughts of slow playing. If I'm within my bankroll, losing a by in, although annoying, would not be disasterous. Move it in, take the pot down there and then, and raise the next one. ;) (or even better get a call from a frustrated, wound up battered and bruised player), DOHH
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    Dohhhhhhhhhhhh in "I'm shoving all in" shock statement lol
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  • LadyFingrsLadyFingrs
    edited November 2009
    In Response to Re: Master Cash Episode # 2 - Make Your Play TWO:
    In Response to Re: Master Cash Episode # 2 - Make Your Play TWO : Dohhhhhhhhhhhh in "I'm shoving all in" shock statement lol
    Posted by phil12uk
    /> "im folding and waiting for a better spot" imo
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  • Hogg321Hogg321
    edited November 2009
    shove, if hes aggressive then he would've re-raised with AK, if hes sat on A4/A3 44/33 then thats just unlucky
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