PLO couple of hands

jams88

Did i overplay my hand here? Raising 4betting button ok with thes hand? Iso riase flop ok with player still to act?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
poolidol77	Small blind		£0.10	£0.10	£7.21
CANNONKID	Big blind		£0.20	£0.30	£4.40
	Your hole cards	A A J 9
jams88	Raise		£0.60	£0.90	£19.80
CI	Raise		£1.00	£1.90	£49.19
poolidol77	Call		£0.90	£2.80	£6.31
CANNONKID	Call		£0.80	£3.60	£3.60
jams88	Raise		£2.00	£5.60	£17.80
CI	Call		£1.60	£7.20	£47.59
poolidol77	Call		£1.60	£8.80	£4.71
CANNONKID	Fold
Flop
		4 10 8
poolidol77	All-in		£4.71	£13.51	£0.00
jams88	Raise		£9.42	£22.93	£8.38
CI	Fold
jams88	Unmatched bet		£4.71	£18.22	£13.09
poolidol77	Show	2 Q Q 5
jams88	Show	A A J 9
Turn
		7
River
		A
jams88	Win	Straight to the Jack	£17.32		£30.41

Hand 2: preflop raise ok? limp/call or fold given position? is calling flop going to get me in trouble more often than not?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
CANNONKID	Small blind		£0.10	£0.10	£1.67
moz1974	Big blind		£0.20	£0.30	£19.80
	Your hole cards	5 3 4 6
jams88	Raise		£0.60	£0.90	£29.41
CI	Call		£0.60	£1.50	£48.96
09elnino	Call		£0.60	£2.10	£21.88
CANNONKID	Fold
moz1974	Call		£0.40	£2.50	£19.40
Flop
		J 3 5
moz1974	Check
jams88	Bet		£1.20	£3.70	£28.21
CI	Fold
09elnino	Fold
moz1974	Raise		£6.10	£9.80	£13.30
jams88	Call		£4.90	£14.70	£23.31
Turn
		5
moz1974	All-in		£13.30	£28.00	£0.00
jams88	Call		£13.30	£41.30	£10.01

IDONKCALLU

1st hand u have a good hand biut as plo is a drawing game u dont want to put alot in preflop so i wouldnt of 4-bet preflop as its a drawing game and u dnt want tell people u have aces so buy just calling the raise u have disguised your hand on the flop i am folding if u had a spades and another card yes for sure go all in but with just a up n down str8 draw this is never usually good on such a wet flop  some 1 could have a set plus 2 spades in there hand so u are pretty much drawing dead 

2nd hand i am never raising this preflop im more likey to fold u have no nut flush draws your basically gambling that low cards come out even then your not going to be in that much good shape unless u hit the str8 plo is all about nuts game if the nuts is out there then some 1 has it the hands u want is ak suited 10 j suited doubles suits with aces in are always a great hand dnt forget this is a drawing game so try and see flops for as cheap as possible its not like hold em aces = 1 pair never wins in omaha so dnt make it to obvious when u raise preflop that u have aces and they are easy to crack 

foy555

hand 1
Preflop: 4betting so small here is probably the worst thing to do with your hand, it give all 3 opos great value to call and see a flop. Make your 4bet size much bigger (3/4pot -full pot size reraise) your aim is to shut them out the blinds and get it HU

The 4 bet will kinda turn your hand face up most of the time if you only doing it with AAxx but at this level and with 3 other players in the pot it’s the best line in my opinion. Get it in if he 5bets

Flop: the flop isnt to bad for your hand. id call the allin from the shortstack and reassess on turn if btn calls

hand 2
Preflop. Opening with a raise preflop with a small rundown is fine most of the time. Easy to getaway from these hands if you mis the flop. - but if the tables agreesive with lotta 3beting/4beting you can probbetter to fold this pre.
Flop: you hit the flop pretty good. But wen the big blind 3bets you here what do you put him on ? is he raiseing his flush draws? or only is it only with sets? Its opo dependant but against someone with no reads id probably shove he’s reraise cause of stack sizes. calling isnt too bad and folding seems to nitty
Turn: A shove kinda screams a floped top set that filled up on turn but with no reads on opo i think calling here is fine at this level with opo only having a pot sized bet left, if he’s got jjj55 or quads too bad but hes range also includes 33355 which you are beating and also at this level i wont be surprised if he turns over a overpair with a fd. again this is very dependant on the villan vs a post flop nit id fold xd

disclaimer: kinda new to forums so  im nubby at giving advise (xd and been playing PLO for 4months only

jams88

In Response to Re: PLO couple of hands:

hand 1 Preflop: 4betting so small here is probably the worst thing to do with your hand, it give all 3 opos great value to call and see a flop. Make your 4bet size much bigger (3/4pot -full pot size reraise) your aim is to shut them out the blinds and get it HU The 4 bet will kinda turn your hand face up most of the time if you only doing it with AAxx but at this level and with 3 other players in the pot it’s the best line in my opinion. Get it in if he 5bets Flop: the flop isnt to bad for your hand. id call the allin from the shortstack and reassess on turn if btn calls hand 2 Preflop. Opening with a raise preflop with a small rundown is fine most of the time. Easy to getaway from these hands if you mis the flop. - but if the tables agreesive with lotta 3beting/4beting you can probbetter to fold this pre. Flop: you hit the flop pretty good. But wen the big blind 3bets you here what do you put him on ? is he raiseing his flush draws? or only is it only with sets? Its opo dependant but against someone with no reads id probably shove he’s reraise cause of stack sizes. calling isnt too bad and folding seems to nitty Turn: A shove kinda screams a floped top set that filled up on turn but with no reads on opo i think calling here is fine at this level with opo only having a pot sized bet left, if he’s got jjj55 or quads too bad but hes range also includes 33355 which you are beating and also at this level i wont be surprised if he turns over a overpair with a fd. again this is very dependant on the villan vs a post flop nit id fold xd disclaimer: kinda new to forums so  im nubby at giving advise (xd and been playing PLO for 4months only
Posted by foy555

Hand 1 i meant to raise as much as i could but hit the wrong button apprently but given the option it is ok to try and get stacks in pre here?


Hand 2 I won on the turn think he had 2 pair with the jack didnt feel great calling off but it turned out well for me in the end just felt the flop may have been abit spewy. table was passive havent seen any 4bets at all so we are happy riasing pre then from utg?

Pretty new to omaha like to dabble as i enjoy it but don't confess to have much knowledge about it at all

foy555

its a close(ish) but getting all in here at 0.1/0.2 with AAj9 single suited should be +ev vs most of the peoples ranges at this levels, but in PLO it is rarely an option to get em in preflop becasue of the pot limit factor. And wen you get post flop with your hand and dont conect you have to be willing to let em go too many people fall in love with AA pre and cant seem to fold. Espicaly if you get bad aces like AA94 not suited, thats a hand you should just typicly set mine whit.

I did initialy say it was okey to open with this hand but i guess in the long run thats a losing play, its has massive negative implied odds. This is because with these small rundowns you can get into alot of trouble. Alot of the time you can be on the bad end of a wrap/str8/flush draw so id say becarefull and dont go too crazy with them. You should typicly stick to opening rundowns from 5to8 and up and 3 beting high rundowns such as AtoT suited with a single gap.

mind the spelling im so tired zzzz

rancid

In Response to Re: PLO couple of hands:

its a close(ish) but getting all in here at 0.1/0.2 with AAj9 single suited should be +ev vs most of the peoples ranges at this levels, but in PLO it is rarely an option to get em in preflop becasue of the pot limit factor. And wen you get post flop with your hand and dont conect you have to be willing to let em go too many people fall in love with AA pre and cant seem to fold. Espicaly if you get bad aces like AA94 not suited, thats a hand you should just typicly set mine whit. I did initialy say it was okey to open with this hand but i guess in the long run thats a losing play, its has massive negative implied odds. This is because with these small rundowns you can get into alot of trouble. Alot of the time you can be on the bad end of a wrap/str8/flush draw so id say becarefull and dont go too crazy with them. You should typicly stick to opening rundowns from 5to8 and up and 3 beting high rundowns such as AtoT suited with a single gap. mind the spelling im so tired zzzz
Posted by foy555

Nice post, certianly got my brain whirling )

Talon

  Wont go into too much detail about the hands here but throw in some general advice which covers these hands well.

  When evaluating a starting hand count the number of nut drawing hands you have of the 6 available as this will show how well you can hit the flop. Hand 1 You have 3 (AA AJ J9) hand 2 you have 6(34 35 36 45 46 56). So although the hands them selves in hand 1 are stronger there are less of them and therefore less likelihood to hit the board.
 Now look at those 2 flops and see the outcome. Hand 1 ,1 pair plus OESD. Hand 2, 2 pair plus oesd. This happens because all your cards in hand 2 are working together.


  Any hand no matter how strong preflop can be destroyed by the flop so always beware of getting too much in pre because there are streets to be played. The exception is if you can guarantee to get at least 40% of your stack in pre with aces with the intent of shoving on any board.

  The main streets of value are the flop and the turn. This is where you need to be focusing your efforts with your big hands and big draws. Preflop is just muscle flexing and the river is not as profitable as in NLHE.

 And last and by no means least.If position is deemed important in NLHE then it must be considered to be critical in PLO. Always try to play any hand in position against the others involved as this will allow you all the choices about strength and pot sizing.

TPTP123

I dont understand the thread.  These hands are perfect hands. 

This is the equivalent of post AA and 67s that flops a flush & straight draw. 

Havent read the other posts - may do later. 

foy555

he was asking about his play, the result of the hand is not as impotant i guess

TPTP123

yeah agreed, the result is not important. 

My post is in relation to the starting hands + flop. 

jams88

In Response to Re: PLO couple of hands:

I dont understand the thread.  These hands are perfect hands.  This is the equivalent of post AA and 67s that flops a flush & straight draw.  Havent read the other posts - may do later. 
Posted by TPTP123

The thread was to see about my starting hand selection and the fact i got most of my chips in in boths hands on the flop whether this play was ok ect. I also here alot in omoha that people overplay aces i wanted to be sure this wasn't what i was doing.

Its easy someimes just to presume you have done the right thing because you have won the hand. I wasn't so sure this was the case, though ti would check with some of regular omaha players.

TPTP123

Fair shout mate, I was just trying to point out that both flops smash the hands you have pre, so its basically like asking if getting it all in with JJ on a AJ3r flop is the right thing to do (but obv on a more complex scale as its plo).  I personally would post more ambigious hands to improve my understanding then these particular examples, apols if i offended, that wasn't my intention. 

AA** is basically the top 5% on hands in plo, and, when its suited or the kickers add up to at least 9+ jus try to get it all in pre flop, the equities run closer in plo so instead of being like ~85/15 as in holdem it'll be more like 65/35.. and you basically want to push that 30% edge in plo to max so its fine to always get it in with AAxx pre just jam and jam.  People do make mistakes on the flop with AA and overplay it but you have a very decent version on AA** in this case and with the flop you have an Overpair+OESD+BDNFD+BDNSD so you have a tonne of blockers as well as a nice redraws if villain does have a set or 2pair. Also you way ahead against 2pair and flipping with sets but slightly ahead because of your main draw and backdoor draws. 

2nd hand is fine imo, flop is the reason you play small rundowns.  Ideally if your going to play them that low then make sure they're double suited but in this case i would get it all in where possible.