Sitting out?

zzr

why is it when you are sitting out on a mtt or other tourney are you still dealt cards yet at cash you aren't, even remember TK saying something about how it changes things, not having a go at sky as every other site is the same,it just doesn't  happen live. I just think sky could take the lead on this and do something about it, I.E charge the big blind every hand and after 2 rounds kick them out. Yes it may sound harsh and I already hear the people saying they have paid their money they can do what they want. I'm looking for solutions here not abuse.

Pipunch

you have to pay a big blind to sit back in or wait for the blind anyway so it makes no difference. obviously with tournies you get blind increases and someone could just sit out, not get dealt in and cruise to the final table. in cash if you don't get cards, you can't win money.

zzr

The problem is they can jump back in anytime they see they have a big hand and not postthe blind without seeing the hand 1st

GaryQQQ

Personally I'd like to see an away players hand instantly mucked in online MTTs, the same as it is in live tournaments.

Two reasons; it'll stop players using the sneaky 'sit-out until you pick up a premium' tactic, often used in the hope that it'll induce extra of chips to go in the pot before it's his/her turn to act, particularly when they're on the big blind. Also it'll stop the annoyance of away players who keep doubling-up when they've blinded out and are auto all-in.

Tikay10

Hi zzr.

I cannot imagine that the position as to sitting out during Tourneys on Sky Poker, or any other site or Live venue, will change.

This aspect is exactly the same, Live or Online, everywhere.

Tourney players are correctly permitted to sit-out, or be absent for a time, in any Tourney, everywhere. They still have to post their Blinds, of course, whether "sat out" or not. It is one of the rare "universal rules" of poker, to which everyone readily complies.
 
If you don't mind me asking - because this questions re-occurs again & again - why is it deemed to be a problem, or something that troubles you & others? 

Not a sarcastic question, it is genuine, because I know it really puzzles the business, it puzzles me, & I feel quite sure that it puzzles most experienced Tourney players.

There are pros & cons to players sitting out, but on balance, it does not really make THAT much difference to other players, & even if it does, it evens out over time. Luck plays a huge part in poker, & I doubt a "sit-out" counts for much in the overall scheme of things.   

In Live Poker, of course, many Top Pros - Phil Hellmuth is a good example - almost always "sits out" for the first 4 or 5 Levels of most Live Tourneys - in fact I can barely recall him EVER arriving on time for a Tourney. His opponents don't complain, because the absence of a player at that table makes no material difference to the eventual outcome. 

It is possible to say "ahh, but, da de da", but on balance, it makes no discernible difference to the play of a Tourney. 

Sit-Outs blind away at around halway in most Tourneys, & their chips get evenly spread, or pretty much so, around all the players.

A few blinds are not going to be enough to tip the balance at the sharp end of a tourney, it makes no measureable difference when the average stack is, say, 20 or 30 times the starting stack.  

Does that help?

Happy to field further questions on this if you wish.    

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Sitting out?:

Personally I'd like to see an away players hand instantly mucked in online MTTs, the same as it is in live tournaments. Two reasons; it'll stop players using the sneaky 'sit-out until you pick up a premium' tactic, often used in the hope that it'll induce extra of chips to go in the pot before it's his/her turn to act, particularly when they're on the big blind. Also it'll stop the annoyance of away players who keep doubling-up when they've blinded out and are auto all-in.
Posted by GaryQQQ

Yes, I do see that side Gary, but we KNOW that "sit-outs" are prone to do that from time to time, so we should adjust our play accordingly.

When we try to steal the Blind of a "sit-out", we are trying to take advantage of something. If we get our fingers cught in that trap, well it was our fault for trying to take advantage, surely? Let buyer beware, & there is a risk to every "gamble", imo. We might gain "free" chips, or we might get caught......;)

It (sitting out to "trap") is not something anyone with a shred of class would do deliberately, but it takes all sorts, & poker is like society, there are good, bad, & in-between types.
 
Just another thing to factor in to our thinking.      

zzr

Hi Tikay and thank you for you response. my gripe really is that they are still dealt whole cards which means they can sit back in when they hit a big hand. P.S i would like to pick your brains on hi lo  I really like this game.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Sitting out?:

Hi Tikay and thank you for you response. my gripe really is that they are still dealt whole cards which means they can sit back in when they hit a big hand. P.S i would like to pick your brains on hi lo  I really like this game.
Posted by zzr

Dealt hole cards? Ye, I hear you, but that is the case everywhere, Live & Online. In Live Poker, the hand is deemed "dead" as soon as dealt, but they do still get hole cards. They pay their Blinds, too, so they are entitled to be dealt a hand.
 
I think your point is that "Online", the hand SHOULD be killed, & I see that argument.
 
However, if a player was ACCIDENTALLY sat out momentarily, or temporarily, for a genuine reason, then it would be unfair to "del them out".
 
I think the real issue here is those players who deliberately manipulate the position for gain by bespoke sit-outs. I agree entirely, these people are, in effect, cheating, but they don't really gain much, if any, advantage.
 
Pick my brains on Hi-Lo? You are very welcome.

My brain is shrinking these days I'm afraid, (did you know that brain cells die, but are not replaced by the body, unlike all other cells, which are?) & my game is not exactly AAA+, but I have a good handle on the basics, & am happy to field questions on Hi-Lo. Probably best to do it on "Ask tikay", or in the Poker Clinic though.
 
Fire away bud.   

Padzz77

I think it does alter the play to some extent.  EG 2 "aways" on a 6 max table.  

If the aways were next to each other, then the player to their right gets the "aways" blinds more often than the other 3 active players.

Or if the 2 "aways" were sat either side of an active player then again, that player has an advantage over the others.

I am not saying that it should be done differently.  It can add an interesting extra dimension  (ie "is Player A just trying to nick those undefended blinds, or does he actually have a hand?")  But I do think it makes some difference to the play.

FWIW, I think the current system should stay as it is.  The time clock runs down quick on the away players, and so it doesnt affect the rest of the table badly.  

And I dont really see how the alleged cheating could be profitable.  It's not as if active players are pressing all-in to steal the blinds.  So someone jumping back in with AA, and raising huge might only get a min raise or two.  Probably less than the blinds which they have allowed to disappear while staring at the screen for half an hour waiting for those AA.