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flopped bottom 2 in DYM

Is it value town time, or a danger hand that can bust you if you are or fall behind?

In general I hate flopping 2 pair, but I think this is a confimration bias thing and I try not to let it affect my decisions, with varying levels of success.


e.g.

Hand History #566870475 (17:31 23/09/2012)

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
SB Small blind  25.00 25.00 4285.00
luvBWFC Big blind  50.00 75.00 1875.00
  Your hole cards
  • 2
  • 4
     
UTG Call  50.00 125.00 2820.00
S1 Fold     
S2 Fold     
SB Fold     
luvBWFC Check     
Flop
   
  • 2
  • 4
  • 8

Comments

  • edited September 2012
    In Response to flopped bottom 2 in DYM:
    Is it value town time, or a danger hand that can bust you if you are or fall behind? In general I hate flopping 2 pair, but I think this is a confimration bias thing and I try not to let it affect my decisions, with varying levels of success. e.g. Hand History #566870475 (17:31 23/09/2012) Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance SB  Small blind   25.00 25.00 4285.00 luvBWFC Big blind   50.00 75.00 1875.00   Your hole cards 2 4       UTG  Call   50.00 125.00 2820.00 S1  Fold         S2 Fold         SB  Fold         luvBWFC Check         Flop     2 4 8
    Posted by luvBWFC
    WOT!!

    2 pair is the nuts

    Re the above hand you can play it either way (cos its a dym u can take a passive c/c line on the flop)... I would prob bet out tho

    u are right to be cautious about bottom 2 but you are going to have the best hand alot so just bet for value is prob best until given a reason to fold.
  • edited September 2012

    Like I sat its probably a confirmation biad thing. I remember all the times I flopped 2 pair and got screwed, not so much the times where i take it down with them.

  • edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: flopped bottom 2 in DYM:
    In Response to flopped bottom 2 in DYM : WOT!! 2 pair is the nuts Re the above hand you can play it either way (cos its a dym u can take a passive c/c line on the flop)... I would prob bet out tho u are right to be cautious about bottom 2 but you are going to have the best hand alot so just bet for value is prob best until given a reason to fold.
    Posted by GREGHOGG
    Sigh, I might live to regret this......the line Greg advises I agree with completely. 
  • edited September 2012

    Bet 100? What else can you do?

    Checking would surely be a terrible option.
  • edited September 2012
    I went for a c/r and got called.
    luvBWFC Check     
    UTG Bet  50.00 175.00 2770.00
    luvBWFC Raise  218.75 393.75 1656.25
    UTG Call  168.75 562.50 2601.25
    Turn
       
    • 10
     
    luckily it was a bit of a brick, still with 2 hearts & 2 spades on board and all the potential str8s I chose now to get it in
    luvBWFC All-in  1656.25 2218.75 0.00
    UTG Call  1656.25
    When he calls I think I am toast, instead it turns out he flatted pre with KK
    luvBWFC Show
    • 2
    • 4
       
    UTG Show
    • K
    • K
       
    River
       
    • J
         
    luvBWFC Win Two Pairs, 4s and 2s 3875.00
    As always though, just because I won doesn't mean I made the right moves, I don't want to let winning hands reinforce bad play.

    Should I have taken an aggressive line right from the flop? As it happens it would have obv made no diff cos he's coming along with KK whatever with no A  on board.
  • edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: flopped bottom 2 in DYM:
    Bet 100? What else can you do? Checking would surely be a terrible option.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    Quite possibly...I suggested it as an option due to the fact it is a dym and sometimes it is better to take passive lines

    We didn't enter the pot with 24 voluntarily we have stumbled across 2 pair. By checking the flop we may get more chips if our opponent likes to bluff IP. Obv involves having to make decisions on the turn/river too (unless we house up lol.

    Obv i agree that betting ~100 is the optimal play tho readless, i was just suggesting an alternative line.
  • edited September 2012
  • edited September 2012
    Hi 'luv',
    he's given you a free flop and you've struck gold. I rec betting out
    A) to protect against poss flush
    B) bet for value

    If he calls and non scary card hits then bet out(even if scary card hits, bet out TBH) again and guage the reaction but two pair is not often beaten in dym's. My only worry is the limp......for some reason players with pocket pairs seem to do this as a 'cheap' option to set mine and trap but in DYM's now  limping is prevalent now at low levels (and in my opinion the wrong thing 100%). So if he's a good player limping  be cautious especially late on. but as it is lev 3 here and still five players left then  conservative chip accumulation is the main objective. Push him to pay to catch as this will pay dividends later  as he may need to enter pots with marginal hands.
  • edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: flopped bottom 2 in DYM:
    Hi 'luv', he's given you a free flop and you've struck gold. I rec betting out A) to protect against poss flush B) bet for value If he calls and non scary card hits then bet out(even if scary card hits, bet out TBH) again and guage the reaction but two pair is not often beaten in dym's. My only worry is the limp......for some reason players with pocket pairs seem to do this as a 'cheap' option to set mine and trap but in DYM's now  limping is prevalent now at low levels (and in my opinion the wrong thing 100%). So if he's a good player limping  be cautious especially late on. but as it is lev 3 here and still five players left then  conservative chip accumulation is the main objective. Push him to pay to catch as this will pay dividends later  as he may need to enter pots with marginal hands.
    Posted by profman15
    oxymoron
  • edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: flopped bottom 2 in DYM:
    Bet 100? What else can you do? Checking would surely be a terrible option.
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    all of this
  • edited September 2012
    obv bet but its a dym u dnt wanna get married to botom pair so shanxta u happy to lose ya stack on bottom 2 here on a dym ? id bet strong on flop 
  • edited September 2012
    In Response to Re: flopped bottom 2 in DYM:
    In Response to Re: flopped bottom 2 in DYM : oxymoron
    Posted by GREGHOGG
    No I do not think it is oxymoronic to marry the two words together. I could see a thoughtful player seeing a short aggressive inexperienced stack in sb or bb say, realising that a limp with a very strong hand may get rer ai when a raise may have allowed sb/ bb to fold a hand. A limp at times may have been made for a reason. I was just highlighting a case. Is there anything else or do you agree with the rest?

    Mind you how do we quantify the word good?......maybe I should be putting 'thoughtful'. I had qualified limping as being generally wrong optimally from a mathematical game theory approach. 

    Ps maybe I should have "two pair is the nuts" when it blatantly is NOT but I agree with your general direction. Let's not argue over semantics Greg, shall we, as the guy was asking generally about what he should do in the hand. If we'd disagreed fine as uv more experience but I've played quite a few dym's , have a +ve roi, and read some articles and books so I felt able to put my two penneth worth in. 
  • edited September 2012
    im never happy stacking of with bottom 2 pair in a mtt year not in a dym early stages 
  • edited September 2012
    be intresting to hear john connors thoughts 
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