8NL - Standaaard?

Lambert180

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Lambert180	Big blind		£0.08	£0.08	£16.94
	Your hole cards	K A
rwhite	Fold
athom1941	Call		£0.08	£0.16	£9.80
DAZ_ACER	Call		£0.08	£0.24	£5.68
paultheq	Raise		£0.16	£0.40	£7.12
Lambert180	Raise		£0.56	£0.96	£16.38
athom1941	Fold
DAZ_ACER	Call		£0.56	£1.52	£5.12
paultheq	Call		£0.48	£2.00	£6.64
Flop
		7 10 2
Lambert180	Bet		£1.20	£3.20	£15.18
DAZ_ACER	Fold
paultheq	Call		£1.20	£4.40	£5.44
Turn
		Q
Lambert180	Check
paultheq	Check
River
		3
Lambert180	Check
paultheq	Check
Lambert180	Show	K A
paultheq	Show	10 K
paultheq	Win	Pair of 10s	£4.07		£9.51

BorinLoner

Yep. Looks standard to me.

If you bet the turn you're betting into a player whose range fits that board quite nicely. His call on the flop could be the flush draw but he's unlikely to put you on it and will most likely call again on the turn with anything that called the flop.

So if you decided to bet the turn, you'd have to also bet the river and hope he doesn't have a hand on a board that fits his range. Looks fine to give up after your c-bet.

TPTP123

Depends on the player type imo, I'm guessing their not solid regs? folding out 2 callers in a 3BP OOP is kinda difficult... especially if they both either decent or useless. 

Ideally you need them both to be loose passive and fit/fold post flop. HU i would prob auto cbet... 

percival09

I choose to give up at this limit otf 3way. With a backdraw flush draw I might bet

grantorino

I'd barrell if I bet that flop (which I prob wouldnt)

Why does everyone want to bet flops that miss our range then give up on turn all the time in 3b pots?

TPTP123

cause folding is hard mayn!! The number of hands i could post where i cbet and barrel when i shsouldn't is heavey!! 

grantorino

In Response to Re: 8NL - Standaaard?:

cause folding is hard mayn!! The number of hands i could post where i cbet and barrel when i shsouldn't is heavey!! 
Posted by TPTP123

lol, but why be one and done on boards where we get called a lot

TPTP123

Ultimatley always depends on the players!!!!!! Which is obv my standard motto for posts here!!! haha

But below 30nl barreling to get someone to fold bottom/second pair or 8s/9s is kinda misfiring. When we dont turn TP and barrel we basically want to fold out some hands that are better then us... obv FD or Qx just arent folding but you could get a weak tight reg to fold a T when you barrel some turns in rare spots. 

This is kinda more for 50nl and up imo.. as more players can fold 2nd pair etc compared to 30nl... 

Below 30nl its kinda just overplaying your hand and pushing a ridic small edge which when goes wrong will massively dent winrate (as shutting down on river when they call the turn barrel is sooooo hard!!!).  

Generally speaking as an "autoplay" I think I prefer the cbet on flop, sizing is perfect as played, as 3betting and not cbetting is much worse then 3bet/Cbet and would rather just flat AK pre and get value from hands like A3, A7, AJ etc ... ok i'm kinda rambling a making a tonne of points incoherantly. 

The point I'm poorly trying to make is that Auto 3bet & C/F OOP on this flop is a very dangerous line to take as in some cases we can often take down this flop.  Where the flop isnt dry but its not the worst for us. 

grantorino

In Response to Re: 8NL - Standaaard?:

Ultimatley always depends on the players!!!!!! Which is obv my standard motto for posts here!!! haha But below 30nl barreling to get someone to fold bottom/second pair or 8s/9s is kinda misfiring. When we dont turn TP and barrel we basically want to fold out some hands that are better then us... obv FD or Qx just arent folding but you could get a weak tight reg to fold a T when you barrel some turns in rare spots.  This is kinda more for 50nl and up imo.. as more players can fold 2nd pair etc compared to 30nl...  Below 30nl its kinda just overplaying your hand and pushing a ridic small edge which when goes wrong will massively dent winrate (as shutting down on river when they call the turn barrel is sooooo hard!!!).   Generally speaking as an "autoplay" I think I prefer the cbet on flop, sizing is perfect as played, as 3betting and not cbetting is much worse then 3bet/Cbet and would rather just flat AK pre and get value from hands like A3, A7, AJ etc ... ok i'm kinda rambling a making a tonne of points incoherantly.  The point I'm poorly trying to make is that Auto 3bet & C/F OOP on this flop is a very dangerous line to take as in some cases we can often take down this flop.  As the flop isnt dry but its not the worst for us. 
Posted by TPTP123

How can that be just stated like its a rule

TPTP123

Generally speaking as an "autoplay" I think I prefer the cbet on flop, sizing is perfect as played, as 3betting and not cbetting is much worse then 3bet/Cbet 

So basically you 3bet and only cbet when flop top pair like 30% of the time, so 70% of the time your not cbetting at all? or only on dry flops?

I did say i was speaking incoherantly... soz if its just wayyy tooo rambled!!

grantorino

Well don't see how 3b/cbet/give up is a standard line on like every flop

Obv it depends on loads of factors. But cbetting boards where we are likely to get called then giving up on turns doesn't seem like a great idea to me.  I may be wrong and games here have less light 3betting so dynamic is different , 

rancid

3 bet to c bet has become so preditable and is so exploitable
checking some flops can't be bad

TPTP123

Okay, i undestand your perspective now. 

It's not a standard line but it is a standard line with AK OOP in 3BP when we whiff flop imo.. 

Mostly sky player are 3betting a small value range, QQ+, AK in most 3x or 4x cases.  When you think about what hands call those 3bets... 22-TT, 78-JTs, A2s-A5s, etc... 3betting AK and either c/f flop or chking turn gives the initiative to villain and they'll  try to take the pot down IP when we show weakness. 

So imo its better to fight for the dead money with AK on this flop with one cbet oop. 

rancid

Does anyone not agree if you c bet here you have to fire turn

TPTP123

Yeah me, I'm saying I prefer Cbet folding.  Board is not as scary as it looks imo but we do need reads!!!!!

Grantorino is questioning why its standard to cbet flop & give up turn. Preferring to cbet flop & barrel turn instead of Cbet folding. But he ultimately prefers checking flop in this spot - hope that's right mate. 

Man I know how to murder a thread. 

grantorino

I dunno, like it depends so much on dynamic

I would be kinda of the opinion on like raggy boards v even semi competent players in 3b pots we should either c/f or have at least 2 bullets in our gun when we miss. So yeah I kinda agree Rancid

rancid

well c bet and give up - your just going to get floated so much - granted only by compentant oppo but still firing turn folds out a lot of oppo range that they have called c bet with imo