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Was this play really that bad?

edited October 2012 in The Poker Clinic
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
u_owe_me Small blind   300.00 300.00 262.50
RedRicky Big blind   600.00 900.00 11760.00
  Your hole cards
  • A
  • 10
     
brit1806 Fold        
badbeatash Fold        
EBBERDON Raise   1800.00 2700.00 14170.00
ledders729 Call   1800.00 4500.00 15200.00
u_owe_me Fold        
RedRicky Fold        
Flop
   
  • 5
  • 10
  • A
     
EBBERDON Bet   600.00 5100.00 13570.00
ledders729 Call   600.00 5700.00 14600.00
Turn
   
  • 7
     
EBBERDON Bet   1200.00 6900.00 12370.00
ledders729 Raise   5250.00 12150.00 9350.00
EBBERDON Raise   8100.00 20250.00 4270.00
ledders729 Raise   8100.00 28350.00 1250.00
EBBERDON All-in   4270.00 32620.00 0.00
ledders729 Call   220.00 32840.00 1030.00
EBBERDON Show
  • 5
  • 5
     
ledders729 Show
  • A
  • 10
     
River
   
  • A
     
ledders729 Win Full House, Aces and 10s 32840.00   33870.00

Comments

  • edited October 2012
    Just to explain my thought process behind this one, I decided to see the flop as I felt I had a decent Ace in position and I'm fairly deep stacked.

    The flop comes down and as far as I am concerned, I am in fairly decent shape.  OK, there are 2 clubs on the board, but if he is drawing to a flush, then good luck.

    The turn.  I don't think this really changes anything, I reckon I am still in good shape.  No made flush, and a pretty dry board.  I am only being beat by a set at this stage, but don't put him on Aces or Tens, as I am already holding A 10.  I am beating any other Ace at this stage.  So I'm calling here.

    The River.  Made a full house.

    Where did I get it wrong though?  Yes, I won the hand, but then had to see comments in the chat box calling me a fish!!

    The bit for me is the bet on the flop.  If a set is going to bet a flop so small, it's asking for trouble in my view.

    Any thoughts??
  • edited October 2012
    Ignore these kind of people in the chatbox, it's generally people whinging about bad beats. This player is known as being someone who rants at the table ALOT when he loses.

    I don't think you did anything too wrong. I might consider folding pre but I'm a nit. Once you've called pre, I might raise the flop because it's quite wet (plenty of possible draws out there).

    There's absolutely nothing wrong with getting it all in on the turn, there are tons of hands you're beating here... A5, A7, AK, AQ, AJ, FDs and you just aint deep enough to fold this IMO.
  • edited October 2012
    i wouldnt be flatting with A10 out of that stack but when you have hit 2 pair then you have to go with it,


  • edited October 2012
    Only an idiot would insult a player at the poker table. Don't allow idiots to tell you how to play poker.

    As for whether you played the hand well or not: There are better ways to play it but what you did wasn't "terribad".

    Calling the raise in position pre-flop is alright but with AT you need to be careful not to fall in love with top-pair on the flop. Against the pre-flop raiser if you end up playing a big pot on an Ace-high board, you're very likely to have the worst hand. As long as you realise that and are able to get away from top-pair, then playing AT from the button is fine. Remember that position is your key strength here, not your hand. Your stack is just about big enough to make this call, as long as you're not playing to simply hit your hand.

    The flop is interesting. I don't hate calling, though I think a raise would be better. When EBBERDON leads so small it looks pretty strange but you should be confident that you have the best hand a big majority of the time. Since there is a flush draw on the board and the board is Ace-high, you definitely want to raise for value. AK, AQ and possibly AJ can all be in EBBERDON's hand and he will pay you more if he's holding any of those. If he has a flush draw, possibly with a gut-shot like KcQc, we need to charge him to draw to those as well. If you think his small lead indicates genuine weakness, then calling to let him bet the turn can be fine. This board might not be the best for that, though.

    There are plenty of scare cards that can come on the turn. Some of those will frighten our opponent and will prevent them paying us their full stack with worse hands, others will make our opponent a better hand and others will make us fear that our opponent has made a better hand and might lead to us being bluffed. So we want to get as much in on the flop as we can when we believe we are very likely to have the best hand and when our opponent is very likely to be willing to continue with worse hands.

    Having called the flop bet and seen a safe turn card, you make the raise over the small lead. This is fine and when you face the 3-bet you should simply raise all-in because EBBERDON is unlikely to fold and we're still ahead of most of his range with top two-pair. Your 4-bet to slightly less than all-in is strange but there's no real difference between this and going all-in.

    EBBERDON got unlucky with the river but he played the hand quite appallingly in my eyes. Min-betting the Ace-high, wet flop with bottom set is quite poor. He should know that a huge portion of your range is going to be an Ax hand which he can get value from and he also should know that he needs to charge any flush draws, rather than price them in. I hope it wasn't him who was abusing you. He's a good player and should be looking at his own play.
  • edited October 2012
    Thanks for the replies.

    In answer to BorinLoner, yes, it was EBBERDON who was giving me the abuse in the chat box after the hand had played.
  • edited October 2012
  • edited October 2012
    In Response to Re: Was this play really that bad?:
    Get it in pre
    Posted by grantorino
    28BB pre-flop with AT?
  • edited October 2012
    In Response to Re: Was this play really that bad?:
    Only an idiot would insult a player at the poker table. Don't allow idiots to tell you how to play poker. As for whether you played the hand well or not: There are better ways to play it but what you did wasn't "terribad". Calling the raise in position pre-flop is alright but with AT you need to be careful not to fall in love with top-pair on the flop. Against the pre-flop raiser if you end up playing a big pot on an Ace-high board, you're very likely to have the worst hand. As long as you realise that and are able to get away from top-pair, then playing AT from the button is fine. Remember that position is your key strength here, not your hand. Your stack is just about big enough to make this call, as long as you're not playing to simply hit your hand. The flop is interesting. I don't hate calling, though I think a raise would be better. When EBBERDON leads so small it looks pretty strange but you should be confident that you have the best hand a big majority of the time. Since there is a flush draw on the board and the board is Ace-high, you definitely want to raise for value. AK, AQ and possibly AJ can all be in EBBERDON's hand and he will pay you more if he's holding any of those. If he has a flush draw, possibly with a gut-shot like KcQc, we need to charge him to draw to those as well. If you think his small lead indicates genuine weakness, then calling to let him bet the turn can be fine. This board might not be the best for that, though. There are plenty of scare cards that can come on the turn. Some of those will frighten our opponent and will prevent them paying us their full stack with worse hands, others will make our opponent a better hand and others will make us fear that our opponent has made a better hand and might lead to us being bluffed. So we want to get as much in on the flop as we can when we believe we are very likely to have the best hand and when our opponent is very likely to be willing to continue with worse hands. Having called the flop bet and seen a safe turn card, you make the raise over the small lead. This is fine and when you face the 3-bet you should simply raise all-in because EBBERDON is unlikely to fold and we're still ahead of most of his range with top two-pair. Your 4-bet to slightly less than all-in is strange but there's no real difference between this and going all-in. EBBERDON got unlucky with the river but he played the hand quite appallingly in my eyes. Min-betting the Ace-high, wet flop with bottom set is quite poor. He should know that a huge portion of your range is going to be an Ax hand which he can get value from and he also should know that he needs to charge any flush draws, rather than price them in. I hope it wasn't him who was abusing you. He's a good player and should be looking at his own play.
    Posted by BorinLoner
    In Response to Re: Was this play really that bad?:
    Ignore these kind of people in the chatbox, it's generally people whinging about bad beats. This player is known as being someone who rants at the table ALOT when he loses. I don't think you did anything too wrong. I might consider folding pre but I'm a nit. Once you've called pre, I might raise the flop because it's quite wet (plenty of possible draws out there). There's absolutely nothing wrong with getting it all in on the turn, there are tons of hands you're beating here... A5, A7, AK, AQ, AJ, FDs and you just aint deep enough to fold this IMO.
    Posted by Lambert180

  • edited October 2012
    In Response to Re: Was this play really that bad?:
    J Any thoughts??
    Posted by ledders729

    yep.  It's not generally good practice to leave in the opponents names in posts in the clinic.

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