Not caring about the money?

Pipunch

There's no doubt in my mind that I (and probably most players) play my best game when I have no fear of losing.

Good BRM practices work so well because they have exactly the same effect; you're never playing with scared money.

Pipunch

i played $100 buy in heads up last night.

basically i deposited on a european site which turns out is ridiculously hard to get your money back from. the most viable option was a money transfer but you had to have a minimum of $160 in your account to do it (shoddy, i know)

i only had $80 in my account, and had basically written it off. so i played heads up in the slim hope of doubling up so i could withdraw. (i finished with $192ish)----thin brag over

the players i found at this level were really really poor. i played 3 or 4 different ones and they were so bad it was untrue. calling massive 3-bets and playing fit or fold post flop, betting $1 into $30 pots when they'd missed etc.

my point is this: i made moves on my opponents that i would never have the balls to do. check raise jamming 4-high on a dryish board on the river for the last $25 and getting him to lay down second pair after i'd shown strength throughout, constantly 3-betting and 5-betting wide when i knew they were just playing back at me etc.

does anyone think this lack of interest in the money can actually aid you in making the correct decisions?

because the money factor affects everyone.

it's like the guy who turned quad 8's in the WSOP this year and layed it down due to his opponent being 'on a straight flush'. this guy said the $1m buy in was nothing to do with his decision. nonsense. in a $10 BI cash game he snaps it off all day long.

so what are your thoughts?

GELDY

In Response to Re: Not caring about the money?:

There's no doubt in my mind that I (and probably most players) play my best game when I have no fear of losing.
Posted by GaryQQQ

True, but also I play better in MTTs when it matters more, ie the stakes are higher, but this might just be me!

So I would add a fourth button to the poll - "both" - to find out

JockBMW

On this subject I find that, if I am playing well withing my Bank Roll Guidelines, Bad beats and suck outs don't hurt int eh slightest.  

However If I go up a level before I have the roll for it then these hurt a hell of a lot.  When you get hurt by a bad beat I am convinced your decision making goes out the window for a while.  Your tilted even of you try and presuade yourself your not.

100% agree.  Dont play with scared money 

Lambert180

This is exactly why good BRM is key. You wanna be able to sit at a table, make all the moves you want to make and if it doesn't work out and you lose 5 BIs or whatever, you can just shrug it off

unknown_username

Totally agree brm def the future lol, wish i knew this 2 years ago

Now have between 70/150 buyins in my roll depending on mtt so when sum idiot gets lucky with 72, note it and get um next time. Run Good

Pipunch

hm yeah i get that

but do you think the likes of Isildur/Ivey etc who say the money means nothing to them are where they are because of that blatant disregard?

rancid

Don't even think about the monetry value - it's just chips always - is it the right more or not - simples !

but mayb that's why I don't care about losing and why I swong !

SO MUCH

or maybe I am just bad )

don't think you should be afriad to get things wrong - sometimes )

NColley

its about getting the balance right between the money meaning something while being able to play a 'fearless' game.

if the money means nothing to you at all where is your incentive to improve your game, since if you lose you won't care at all.

neil1970

BRM is the key to playing your best poker and as j3ono says i wish i had found that out also and would not be stuck over £2000 just playing awful poker with no BRM at all, deffo effects your decsion making at the table.
Since following my team mate garyQQQ progress in his challenge inspired me to sort out my BRM problems which im glad to say are going in the correct direction...

I am playing roughly 70 or 80 buyin's for my level which is £11 mtts and im only stuck £1000 now..

Having a good bankroll behind me has really improved my decsion making hence results have improved alot over the last 6 months...

sikas

u need to have a big enough bank roll not to care about the money, u cant help it sometimes afterwards tho, losing 6 BI's is far more overwhelming than the 'High' of winning 6 BI, so its good practice to try and have a stoploss when its not ur day

Pipunch

i disagree about the comments with regards to bankroll in the sense that even when rolled at 25 BI's + for a level, it can still affect you if you're trying to build a roll and move up levels.

scotty77

In Response to Re: Not caring about the money?:

i disagree about the comments with regards to bankroll in the sense that even when rolled at 25 BI's + for a level, it can still affect you if you're trying to build a roll and move up levels.
Posted by Pipunch

if it affects you then either your bankroll isn't big enough or you are still associating the BI with 'real' world money.

thats actually the biggest leak that a lot of people have.  they have a bad night at the tables and start thinking stuff like 'I could have paid my gas bill with that'.

Pipunch

no i mean it's a question of mentality when it comes to progression.

so you're doing really well, then you lose a BI, then another BI, then another 3, then you start to question your decisions because it's affected your progress with regards to building a roll. it's like quadrupling up in a cash game, but there is also someone else sitting with a big stack, you don't really want to lose what you've built up, type of thing

it's not being scared to lose the actual money, more like not wanting to feel like you've taken a little step backwards

scotty77

In Response to Re: Not caring about the money?:

no i mean it's a question of mentality when it comes to progression. so you're doing really well, then you lose a BI, then another BI, then another 3, then you start to question your decisions because it's affected your progress with regards to building a roll. it's like quadrupling up in a cash game, but there is also someone else sitting with a big stack, you don't really want to lose what you've built up, type of thing
Posted by Pipunch

oh I see.  yeah that makes perfect sense.

just something that comes with time and its why building a roll is probably one of the toughest things to do, but ever so satisfying when you get there

tiercel

As a tournament player my game frees up when I hit the money I am very tight up to the cash bubble ( or covered my buy-in on Bounty hunters ) then loosen up but I don't know whether I play better -  just different. BRM is not a concept I use If I have spare cash I use it: if I am winning I go  higher risk/entry if not I drop back - but this has more to do with form than bankroll.

Pipunch

In Response to Re: Not caring about the money?:

In Response to Re: Not caring about the money? : oh I see.  yeah that makes perfect sense. just something that comes with time and its why building a roll is probably one of the toughest things to do, but ever so satisfying when you get there
Posted by scotty77

if only!

my biggest leak is withdrawing all the time to find the juiciest games, but never keeping the roll in one place.

i need to really keep small rolls on all the places i play and just try to build each one up. my £15 C4P needs using so i suppose i'll be back on Sky soon ha.

with regards to your roll, you obviously just have a set roll and then cream off the profits for living expenses and stuff? or are you still building with a view to playing higher and higher limits?

scotty77

In Response to Re: Not caring about the money?:

In Response to Re: Not caring about the money? : if only! my biggest leak is withdrawing all the time to find the juiciest games, but never keeping the roll in one place. i need to really keep small rolls on all the places i play and just try to build each one up. my £15 C4P needs using so i suppose i'll be back on Sky soon ha. with regards to your roll, you obviously just have a set roll and then cream off the profits for living expenses and stuff? or are you still building with a view to playing higher and higher limits?
Posted by Pipunch

a bit of both.  I have a set amount in my Sky account and I withdraw down to that.  the withdrawals go on life stuff and savings and stuff that I waste my money on

Pipunch

sorry for asking so many questions, but it's nice to hear from people who are where you plan on getting ( i never plan on turning pro, my dream now i'm a winning player finally is to just keep trying to move up stakes. being able to only work part time in future would be great though) but for most they guard the secret quite well.

i think it would be really inspirational for us micro grinders to have a thread where the higher stakes players tell us how much they started off with, how quickly they built/moved up levels, when did they finally realise they could quit work and do it full time, current amount of BI's for levels they play, biggest wins, biggest losses etc etc

but i don't think many would be so forthcoming with the 'background story'!

scotty77

Most people on here are quite open an honest.  If you start a thread you'll get a lot of responses.

Being a 'pro' is quite a weird term as there are a lot of people who consider themselves a pro and really, really have no clue but guess you find people like that in all walks of life.

Lambert180

There have been similar threads before like this Pipunch (people saying how they went 'pro' etc) and usually there's quite a few people who are very open and honest like Ryan said (Ryan being one of them). It's always good to get a new one up though and see what responses she gets.

I think a massive factor is people's attitude to risk. Really you need to be completely risk neutral in poker, being risk loving will cause you to make too many speculative calls and be too eager to get it in, even if it's not all the time, the edge at poker is pretty small really in the grand scheme of things so people will rarely be able to make up for regularly playing hands hands pre-flop they just shouldn't.

Likewise, as the edges are pretty small, you can't really avoid to be trying to risk-averse to reduce the variance cos you're losing loads of value. It's like how people say they'd rather play against a bunch of good solid players than people at 4NL, that's because they can't handle the times you will sometimes make big losses when people call you down with junk.