Exit hand from tonights Roller, is this shove OK?

Slykllist

Villain had opened alot of pots with 3x bets, have also seen him do this in other tournaments with a very wide opening range.  I'd been playing pretty solid and he'd raised my BB the last 2 orbits before this.  I'm happy that 55 is ahead of alot of his opening range here, but it's not a hand I want to play out of position.  My thoughts - a call and I'm set mining and a raise is going to be committing 1/4 of my chips to the pot which is why I opted to shove.

Given stack sizes (I'm playing 24BB's at this point, so have plenty of scope to wait for better spots), is this a fold, is there another line here or is the shove right?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
THEROCK573	Small blind		250.00	250.00	31835.00
Slykllist	Big blind		500.00	750.00	12030.00
	Your hole cards	5 5
gadgerno1	Fold
**	Raise		1500.00	2250.00	12282.50
SJspanky1	Fold
DivsDreams	Fold
THEROCK573	Fold
Slykllist	All-in		12030.00	14280.00	0.00
**	Call		11030.00	25310.00	1252.50
Slykllist	Show	5 5
**	Show	9 9
Flop
		8 2 2
Turn
		K
River
		2
**	Win	Full House, 2s and 9s	25310.00		26562.50

Glenelg

Wayy too rash for my liking!  Set mine FTW!  At this stage in tourney I'm only doing this with 1010>. (Not just say this cos oppo has 99 BTW - just a self imposed rule)

BorinLoner

In Response to Re: Exit hand from tonights Roller, is this shove OK?:

Wayy too rash for my liking!  Set mine FTW!  At this stage in tourney I'm only doing this with 1010 />. (Not just say this cos oppo has 99 BTW - just a self imposed rule)
Posted by Glenelg

NOTE: When Glenelg 3-bet shoves, FOLD!!!

BorinLoner

I don't think it's terrible. If you're certain that he's opening a very wide range and is able to fold to a shove a big majority of the time, then it's fine.

I would question whether you think he's aware of position at the table, though. Most players open a considerably tighter range from UTG+1 than from the button, say. It's definitely high variance to shove 24BB here.

I do this sort of thing myself occasionally, only against someone that I've seen open every hand and fold to lots of 3-bets though. There's 19% of your stack in the middle, so it doesn't have to get through that frequently to be profitable and when you're called you're going to be flipping alot of the time. The numbers say it should be a +EV move if you pick your opponent well. You need to be aware of the image it will give you and the dynamic it will set up at the table.

I'm just not sure I'd like doing it against an UTG+1 player but if you think he's not aware of position and can find the fold button...

GELDY

so tough

I used to shove in this spot - working on the assumption that he is raising light. But have often been called by worse, and two overcards still isn't good to risk your tournie life against. So I'm thinking now that I fold in this position, although the table dynamic might change that.

IDONKCALLU

im folding pre here this is a pure gamble if u get calle your never ahead so basicaly ya stealing so u might aswell of shoved with 2 7 u got plenty of chips to play with i think this is a loose shove m8

percival09

Either fold pre or do what you did. I don't like calling or 3bet/folding. 3bet/calling is meh. Depends on villain as to whether I fold or shove

edit: just read your notes on villain I think you played it fine

bearlyther

Id fold here when our opponant has 3xd it under the gun +1 and were not deep enough to set mine.  Ive have had to tighten up my 3 bet jamming range and 4 bet shoving range on sky compared to the french site which i also play on.  On there you will see a lot of 5 bet bluffing and so on but on sky if someone 3 bets me and i 4 bet jam with 55 i guarantee im crushed!

grantorino

Depends if his opening range is wide in ep and how wide he gets it in

It's fine imo, 

Lambert180

I probaly lean towards folding in-game, but I don't think it's terrible at all. You've got a good stack siz for 3bet-shoving, and you've used it against a serial opener (with a wide range) where you have a good chance of having the best hand.

@ IDCU - He will get called by worse sometimes, granted it will mean him flipping, but flipping as a favourite and more often than not he'll probably just pick up the 2250 uncontested against a wide opener.

Pipunch

probably don't need to take the risk with 24 bigs. i think you're behind most of his range by a few %. if he's opening up more than 50% of hands you're still only very slight favourite. i wouldn't take the risk in cash and you didn't need to take the risk here, there were better spots for sure

needless flip at best

rancid

prefer 3/b fold

flame away )

think it's very close if you shove or fold if that's what you prefer -
when called your racing at best -

with that stack probbaly find a fold - but still prefer 3/b fold)
but all depends if oppo been folding to 3 bet's or what - also depends if you have 3 bet oppo before and what happened  -what does oppo call 3bets with IP - lalalalalalalalala

dont' hate the shove, but it's not a great spot )

IDONKCALLU

i understand that lambert but he could be dominated vs overpair its a pure out n out gamble with slyklists stack id rather be the 1 thats raising putting pressure on not going all in after a raise to risky for me 

Lambert180

In Response to Re: Exit hand from tonights Roller, is this shove OK?:

i understand that lambert but he could be dominated vs overpair its a pure out n out gamble with slyklists stack id rather be the 1 thats raising putting pressure on not going all in after a raise to risky for me 
Posted by IDONKCALLU

But that's exactly what he's doing and that's part of the strength of 3bet jams. He's putting the ultimate pressure on by saying, if you call this if for your tournament life, so villian is gonna be calling pretty tight IMO (his call in this hand is probably the absolute bottom of his range) which means most of the time, we add almost 20% to our stack which is massive.

IDONKCALLU

still a gamble i mean id rather be opening the pots stealing blinds etc for me this is a gamble hoping u pick up the blinds and the raisers chips hoping he dnt have anything if u get called ya not loving life so this might aswell be a 7 2 bluff all in imo 

IDONKCALLU

22 33 44 are never calling a shove so ya gonna be dominated 30 per cent of time id say and a flip 70 per cent of the time 

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: Exit hand from tonights Roller, is this shove OK?:

still a gamble i mean id rather be opening the pots stealing blinds etc for me this is a gamble hoping u pick up the blinds and the raisers chips hoping he dnt have anything if u get called ya not loving life so this might aswell be a 7 2 bluff all in imo 
Posted by IDONKCALLU

equity win tie      pots won pots tied

Hand 0: 37.921%   37.69% 00.23%     255598884  1531980.00   { 55 }

Hand 1: 62.079%   61.85% 00.23%     419409540  1531980.00   { TT+, AQs+, KQs, AQo+ }

equity win tie      pots won pots tied

Hand 0: 22.633%   22.39% 00.25%     303609588  3327456.00   { 72o }

Hand 1: 77.367%   77.12% 00.25%    1045880268  3327456.00   { TT+, AQs+, KQs, AQo+ }

Oooops KQs shudn't be in there, prob changes it slightly but cba to do it a 3rd time :P

Yes, I have just re-downloaded PStove

Lambert180

So we got 37% (ish) equity v his range, and he calls probably 10-15% of time max, especially because Sly has given reads that he raises alot with a wide range, so he's obviously raising alot of times when he won't be willing to stick the lot in.

Slykllist

Just for JJ's information I made his range alot wider than  TT+, AQs+, KQs, AQo+ and that was based on pretty solid information.

Slykllist

In Response to Re: Exit hand from tonights Roller, is this shove OK?:

Just for JJ's information I made his range alot wider than  TT+, AQs+, KQs, AQo+ and that was based on pretty solid information.
Posted by Slykllist

btw, he snapped called this so in reality his calling range here probably goes lower than 99..... more information for future!

bearlyther

When someone opens to 3x with them blinds him folding to the jam would be really really bad.  When people open to 3x with the blinds so high i give them credit for a hand.  I dont think hes folding to our shove a high enough percentage of the time for it to be profitable and at best we are flipping or are dominated.

rancid

In Response to Re: Exit hand from tonights Roller, is this shove OK?:

In Response to Re: Exit hand from tonights Roller, is this shove OK? : btw, he snapped called this so in reality his calling range here probably goes lower than 99..... more information for future!
Posted by Slykllist

If oppo calling range is wider then it's probbaly even worse for you.
If your shoving this spot you want his calling range to be narrow, giving you more fold equiity. 10's+ AK for example
you need to fold out pairs /> 6 < 9 + AQ/AJ

oppo raising range has to be very wide & often for you to shove this spot, if that's your read then ok ul bad timing but it's just not a great spot

your stack size without antes is a very nice stack size, 8's+ AJ+ you can happily ship here imo

still think 3 b/f is an option - no one feels the same ?

LOL_RAISE

24bbs no antes its def spew

grantorino

In Response to Re: Exit hand from tonights Roller, is this shove OK?:

Just for JJ's information I made his range alot wider than  TT+, AQs+, KQs, AQo+ and that was based on pretty solid information.
Posted by Slykllist

Would imagine doh is stoving his calling range not his opening range

GELDY

Thanks for posting this Slykllist, as it inspired me to post my exit hand, from which I have gathered really interesting advice. Hope you've found the same from the responses to yours.

pryce6

In Response to Re: Exit hand from tonights Roller, is this shove OK?:

24bbs no antes its def spew
Posted by LOL_RAISE

I know right, he should wait til he has 19bbs and is utg with A6o 

ROFFLE

Slykllist

In Response to Re: Exit hand from tonights Roller, is this shove OK?:

Thanks for posting this Slykllist, as it inspired me to post my exit hand, from which I have gathered really interesting advice. Hope you've found the same from the responses to yours.
Posted by GELDY

Always find it useful which is why I continue to post my terrible plays on here

Thanks all for the comments