Problem not solved :(

robbie1992

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalancerobert1958Small blind £0.25£0.25£10.66Pullin01Big blind £0.50£0.75£65.29 Your hole cards1010   kimparryFold    xRaise £1.50£2.25£53.57robbie1992Call £1.50£3.75£68.08adamg12331Fold    robert1958Fold    Pullin01Fold    Flop  274   xCheck    robbie1992Bet £3.00£6.75£65.08xRaise £9.50£16.25£44.07robbie1992Raise £29.25£45.50£35.83xAll-in £44.07£89.57£0.00robbie1992Call £21.32£110.89£14.51xShow22   robbie1992Show1010   Turn  7   River  10   robbie1992WinFull House, 10s and 7s£109.99 £124.50
For people who dont know i posted a simular hand a few days ago as i feel its a masisve leak in my game, although that was overpair v overpair, again i have got it wrong with an overpair.  Its realy annoying me as i posted on forum for advice to stop it or at least have a better view in the future, and i thought with the good advice i got it would help but i guess i havnt learnt.  reads on the villian was he has been getting in alot of hands and played draws aggresively , and i had called twice till the river and he had folded on river when he missed when i had hands, so my reads was that he was playing his flush draw aggresively.

Pipunch

he's 5bet jamming. is he really playing his draws THAT aggressively? people get way too attached to top pair. it's only the second best hand in hold em.

Pipunch

also why are you calling in position and then going mental with it post flop? are you set mining or thinking you have the best hand? cause if you're treating it as 'i'm going all the way if no overs hit' then i don't see why you wouldn't play it like JJ QQ and reraise pre.

grantorino

fold to flop c/r. checking back also an option

When he c/r his range crushes you. Yes he will have draws sometimes, but they prob have at least 40% equity, while when he has overpairs or sets we are crushed

TPTP123

Sounds like you just need to start thinking about betting lines across all streets including pre in terms of ranges and working on knowing when(or more importantly who) to bet/fold or bet/jam with overpairs against. 

Just Sky+ some mastercash and wait for similar spots to come up, when they do.... Pause the TV, write down a "range" of hands on some paper for the villain and then honestly think about grouping them by sub-ranges into villains a) Check/Raise b) Check/Call c) Check/Fold hands... for when they are OOP.  And then try to think like this during a hand... 

robbie1992

he really was playing his hands this aggresively and he had check raised alot of times mostly on flush draws so i wanted him to commit his money now while he was on the draw.  Yeah i must be over estimating the strength of an overpair just seems like if i fold everytym somone loses aggresion im only playing the hand to hit a set

Pipunch

you just have to think to yourself how often is one pair gonna be good when the money's going in? and how likely is it that MY pair is the best pair.

buy 'little green book' it's got some good stuff in it.

grantorino

In Response to Re: Problem not solved :

he really was playing his hands this aggresively and he had check raised alot of times mostly on flush draws so i wanted him to commit his money now while he was on the draw.  Yeah i must be over estimating the strength of an overpair just seems like if i fold everytym somone loses aggresion im only playing the hand to hit a set
Posted by robbie1992

You shouldn't always fold over pairs.

All over pairs are not equal. The lower the pair, more chance someone has better pair and their draws have more equity

You are allowed to flat call. It's a good option a lot of the time when you have a smallish overpair facing a cbet ( I know that's not what happened in this hand)

Pipunch

just think if you check behind the flop, he'll then fire £3 on the turn and you see the river much cheaper. personally i think you butchered this hand and got lucky. most of the time i set mine with TT. probably wrong long term but it works for me

jams88

In Response to Re: Problem not solved :

he really was playing his hands this aggresively and he had check raised alot of times mostly on flush draws so i wanted him to commit his money now while he was on the draw.  Yeah i must be over estimating the strength of an overpair just seems like if i fold everytym somone loses aggresion im only playing the hand to hit a set
Posted by robbie1992

If this is the case i think your line is ok. I would be more inclined to flat raise on flop and get it in on a safe turn card but you may get bluffed off if a nasty card hits turn. Hands like this make sure you make a note on what player had as it went to showdown. nice bink

robbie1992

Yeah thats always my fear so i thought get the money in when his on a draw if he hits o well, im willing to take that chance.  Hmm its true when your so involved in the game i think u forget its just 1 pair, i think ill happily let go of overpair in future after the last few prblems with them. 

haha this is the first time iv got lucky like this and tbh it doesnt feel good really, i no i made the wrong read and should loose my money, just means i get a second chance, but if i dont fix the problem its inevitable that the same thing will happen and iv had my luck now so next time it wont be so good

jams88

have you considered playing abit lower than nl50 while you plug these leaks?

Lambert180

The thing is, you can't have a fixed system of 'this is what I do with overpairs'. There is no easy answer for what you should do with an overpair. One of the most important things as with any hand of poker is to try to put your opponent on a range of hands.

If you get 3bet, try to think what hands would that person 3bet with... are they a nit so it's always gonna be like AQ+ and JJ+ etc etc. You NEED to try to figure out what your opponent could have, forget about trying to put him on one hand, just try to think of all the possible hands he could have and have a rough idea how many of them are beating you and how many aren't.

Pipunch

^ that

if an overpair is good against his entire range then go with it

having said that, as soon as the check raise comes in, we narrow his range to pairs, or something that's at least got a big part of the board. once the 5bet jam comes in we narrow even further and its then only AK or some sort of flush draw that we're beating, and if he's 5bet jamming with it then he's just outplaying us and we should probably either leave the table or wait for effective nuts before taking him on if were unsure

the only time you can call his all in is if you KNOW he's the sort of player that is doing this as a pure bluff/semi bluff. i know you had a read that he played draws aggressively but there's a difference between aggressive and willing to stack off in the face of pure aggression on a dryish board

quite often if something feels wrong then it is wrong. erring on the side of caution is never bad, sure you'll be missing value often, but it's better to make slow and steady profit than to stack off in situations you're unsure of

Pipunch

oh and go and download poker stove (Slice EV++ or Odds Oracle if you're on a mac) for range calculations

if you know ranges and odds we can make better decisions