Very loose by me but value?

Dazler · October 2012

what would you do in this situation, was very very loose from me but i felt there was a lot of value and could get a big pot if i hit well. I know its a fold pre most of the time especialy after the £4 reraise but decided to have a stab at it, thought id see the flop and work from there, what are your thoughts would you call the flop?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
paddy1988	Small blind		£0.10	£0.10	£38.71
Dazler	Big blind		£0.20	£0.30	£41.19
	Your hole cards	6 8
AlfPachino	Fold
KrazyAce	Fold
ronnieg197	Raise		£0.60	£0.90	£18.60
PiranhaNo1	Raise		£1.20	£2.10	£31.59
paddy1988	Call		£1.10	£3.20	£37.61
Dazler	Call		£1.00	£4.20	£40.19
ronnieg197	Raise		£4.20	£8.40	£14.40
PiranhaNo1	Fold
paddy1988	Call		£3.60	£12.00	£34.01
Dazler	Call		£3.60	£15.60	£36.59
Flop
		5 9 6
paddy1988	Check
Dazler	Check
ronnieg197	Bet		£11.70	£27.30	£2.70
paddy1988	Fold

LnarinOO · October 2012

lol, defo should have folded pre ..!! as played as ur gettin close to 3-1 vs an overpair probally go with it as 6's 7's and 8's all probally win so thats 9outs ..! 2/1eq

MkeItRain · October 2012

Yh preflop is just a bit too ambitious lol if you felt obliged to continue with this hand then 4bet squeezing yourself would be a LOT, LOT better with your hand, making it £4.50 or something. Making loose/passive plays like this pre-flop with 8-high OOP to a couple of players makes life EXTREMELY difficult for yourself and is kind of a weak way to play, at least by squeezing yourself you are taking an aggressive intiative and giving yourself more ways to win the pot apart from flopping a stright/flush draw. It's always best to be the one putting your opponents to this marginal, do-I/dont-T decisions than being the one making them.

as played OTF yh I think you have to go with this, in for a penny and all that :P

HYPETING · October 2012

Lol wtf is this?!

Dazler · October 2012

In Response to Re: Very loose by me but value?:

Lol wtf is this?!
Posted by HYPETING

what do you mean wtf is this! lol its a bit of loosy goosey feeling frisky fun. If your gonna post have a bit more to say than that!

Dazler · October 2012

my thinking behind it was origionaly 60p call was fine then min reraise for another 60p on top to call was fine especialy against AK - A10 even pk pairs on the bb, but when the pot got to about 12 quid 3 way and it was only 4 quid to call i decided this could be quite juicey if it pays off! no point calling pre if im not going to commit to the hand, there certainly not going to be doing it with drawing hands so ill be very disguised if i hit. Flop came i was going to bet the flop and should have really but had to be carefull of being reraised by the £30 stack if he had suited AK or AA and prob would of shoved on me so checked it see what they did. I intended to make a move on the turn but as it happens the lower staked guy shoved for 11 quid. So no way was i folding after £30 stack folded. As it happens i did hit the 7 on turn for st8 and guy had pk Js which is what i put him on but river split it and we shared the pot between 2.

Might seem crazy to some but i was stacked for it and decided to get max value once i was in. Got a mix it up now and again and take a few risks, but i dont do that very often mind lol just played this perticular one like it that time.

IDONKCALLU · October 2012

easy fold against this player who i have played alot hes never bluffing hes got aces or kings here its a fold pre m8 n u know it

LOL_RAISE · October 2012

you cant get 'max value' when you have the worst hand

preflop is definately a mistake, but postflop you have to stack off imo. this is one of the very best flops we can hope for, and we still have <50% equity vs made hands

GELDY · October 2012

Razzle Dazler - too creative by far preflop - particularly as you are oop in a multiway pot with the 4bet villain to act after you.

lol lol raise - we can hope for better than that - some hearts maybe, or an oesd?

but seriously I guess you're right - we are probably flipping against his range and priced in.

meanwhile Dazler I hope you invested those chips I donated to you in the UKOPS sat wisely.....

percival09 · October 2012

we aren't flipping vs his range at all imo

we have like 40% equity max and i think it's v.close between getting it in and folding

but idk, correct me if im wrong ofc

NColley · October 2012

1) your out of position

2) you don't close the action, thus stuff like original opener 4bets and you just gifted him an extra £1 or you peel and gift him an extra £3.60 when you c/f after missing OR you get it in usually vs an overpair and have like 32% equity. Its extremely rare occurence to flop flushes or straights.

23,760 games 0.001 secs 23,760,000 games/sec

Board: 5c 9c 6s

Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied

Hand 0: 31.793% 31.21% 00.58% 7416 138.00 { 8h6h }

Hand 1: 68.207% 67.63% 00.58% 16068 138.00 { JJ+ }

If villain bets with AK on flop then your equity improves to ~50% but I dno how likely he is to bet AK on that flop vs 2 players that have cold called 3bet/call 4bet oop

What makes it worse tbh is the fact that the 4bettor is only 100bb's deep.

MkeItRain · October 2012

In Response to Re: Very loose by me but value?:

my thinking behind it was origionaly 60p call was fine then min reraise for another 60p on top to call was fine especialy against AK - A10 even pk pairs on the bb

This isn't really right tbh, the problem with these types of hands, as pretty as they are, is that they have a bit of reverse implied odds attached to them, basically meaning that it's very likely your opponents can flop dominating pairs/draws, and if you're OOP you'll be playing without initiative to make a non-nuts hand and get stackd when you do. If it's only been raised once I would call here most likely as there are some very gin flops for you and you're already invested in the SB, once there has been a 3bet we're commiting chips when there is a high chance of another raise pre-flop and we're getting into all sorts of mess ourselves.

when the pot got to about 12 quid 3 way and it was only 4 quid to call i decided this could be quite juicey if it pays off! no point calling pre if im not going to commit to the hand, there certainly not going to be doing it with drawing hands so ill be very disguised if i hit. Flop came i was going to bet the flop and should have really but had to be carefull of being reraised by the £30 stack if he had suited AK or AA and prob would of shoved on me so checked it see what they did. I intended to make a move on the turn but as it happens the lower staked guy shoved for 11 quid. So no way was i folding after £30 stack folded. As it happens i did hit the 7 on turn for st8 and guy had pk Js which is what i put him on but river split it and we shared the pot between 2. Might seem crazy to some but i was stacked for it and decided to get max value once i was in. Got a mix it up now and again and take a few risks, but i dont do that very often mind lol just played this perticular one like it that time.

Same thing again what usually will happen now is you'll flop a little bit worse than your oppponents but be forced to go with it anyways, which is exactly what happened here.

The thing with suited connecters is there main value comes from the fact you flop a lot more draws with them, and whereas it's easier to make striaghts and flushes you can semi-bluff using these hands way more often and put max pressure on your opponents. To do this howeve ryou really need the stacks to be deep relevant to the pot, for example if you're 500 big blinds deep with 68hh on 45Thh and you're IP you can put a hand as good as pocket ACES to some really tough decisions. If you only have twice the pot behind in stacks AA is just going to get his monney in and you're going to have to hit a striaght or a flush to win, now the value of your Suited Connecter is drastically reduced.

That's why it would have been a better play to make the 4bet yourself preflop, then you could put a hand like JJ under some pressure, but as it's played out you've commited money with the worst of it on every street which isn't the best wway to play.

Another point is that 67/78/89 are much stronger than 57/68/79 for suited connecters.

Lambert180 · October 2012

In Response to Re: Very loose by me but value?:

easy fold against this player who i have played alot hes never bluffing hes got aces or kings here its a fold pre m8 n u know it
Posted by IDONKCALLU

He said he had JJ in the post above yours lol.

IDONKCALLU · October 2012

same as aa or kk its an overpair make no difference

GELDY · October 2012

In Response to Re: Very loose by me but value?:

we aren't flipping vs his range at all imo we have like 40% equity max and i think it's v.close between getting it in and folding but idk, correct me if im wrong ofc
Posted by percival09

sorry, it was badly worded, I meant given the price, then we are at least flipping. And if you are not interested in taking a flip you shouldn't have seen the flop. And after showdown peeps are unlikely to bet you light for a while.

Dazler · October 2012

some good imput guys, as i said in op was a very lose call and i agree it should be a fold pre and im putting my self at risk most times in this spot, so i knew i was going to be way behind pre and behind post which in long run is not good to be in this spot. Just felt like id go with it on this particular time, I took a gamble on this occasion which i wouldnt normaly and as soon as the £30 stack just flatted pre i knew he wasnt that strong so prb held a hand like A10 AJ after the flop i was correct in assuming he wasnt as he folded. I expected the shove or half pot bet from the guy with only £11 left so knew i was gonna be flipping if i hit my draw and put him on a hand like pk 10s or Js. Not advisable play i know just was feeling a bit fruity at the time and thought id post it as was interesting one to mul over. And whether it was a call on the flop or fold.