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A very, very bad player----> 88MickyC (aka ME)
I've been on this site for a while now. When i first started, i was depositing the odd £10 playing MTT's, busting out and never being a profitable player but of course, it was never my fault and i always had an excuse as to why i was knocked out of each MTT.
My naive, young self decided it must be the site and it's all fixed but of course now i know this is not the case and it was just my very, very bad play. I decided to try another poker site and managed to fish & bink my way into the cash but this was only in the odd MTT.
However, i have always watched the skypoker channel and always preferred Skypoker so any money that i luckily win on the other site goes onto this site but again i have never done well and no where near becoming a profitable player on this site, which was my original goal.
The more i watch Skypoker and the more poker i play, the more i realise how bad of a player i really am and with this in mind, this is where i'm hoping the good people of the skypoker community will come to my rescue. I want to become a better player but to be honest and apologies if this sounds ignorant or stupid but i really don't know where to start.....
However, I have recently started to look back over my hands and finally, starting to realise just how bad of a player i am but not sure where to go from here because i still enjoy the game but i feel i would enjoy it a lot more if i played the game correctly, instead of being a fish and/or a very very bad player.
sorry, for how long this post is but thank you if you are still reading and hope this hasn't bored you too much but i would really appreciate any advice you can offer.
Mick
Comments
I have two pieces of advice to anyone wanting to improve their game.
1) Read Harrington on Hold 'em volumes 1 and 2. Many people scoff at these books nowadays, but they will teach you the fundamentals of tournament play better than any other book, internet site or coaching video I've ever seen.
2) Read every post in the poker clinic and get involved. Explain what you would have done in the situation and, most importantly, explain why you would have done it. Explaining your own reasoning allows other players the chance to challenge your thought process. This highlights weaknesses in your game and reinforces the strengths of your game.
You can learn alot if you're willing to admit that you don't have all the answers. Too many people put their ego into their play, so when someone suggests they've played a hand poorly, they interpret it as an insult to their intelligence. Don't do that. Listen, debate, accept when you're wrong and don't believe that being wrong is the same as being stupid.
Look up every video of pro's playing your chosen form of poker. Watch and listen carefully. Learn about selecting starting hands from the different positions on the table, proceeding post flop, how to play draws etc,etc.
Practice at low stakes, try to admit when you've played a hand badly and appreciate when you've played one optimally.
The beauty of this game is you can always improve no matter what level you are at.
Best of luck.
1). +1 to this. Harrington may be dated in some respects but explains thought processes and the fundamentals very well. Seperate books on cash & tournament play too.
2). Good advice and though I read a fair few of the posts, I'm guilty of not getting involved through the fear of looking stupid !
I've not read harringtons book yet, however, i have watched quite a few videos and i'm starting to get my head round the following:
- The importance of position, which i never really paid any attention to.
- Also, learning a lot more about betting & bet sizing. in relation to stack and pot size. Also, the reason behind my betting, i know a lot of the times i would just bet for betting sakes and never really paid attention as to why i was making the bet....
- I've also been learning about pot odds, but only basic pot odds because for the type of player that i am, i dont feel i really need to know the ins and outs of this subject, when there are more important things i need to concentrate on.
- to not overplay my hand, so many times i've played a hand and thought my ONE pair was good when in actual fact i was crushed by a better hand.
I know what ive said above is only a small part to learn but its a start and i will no doubt learn so much more as i go.
As i'll mainly be playing MTT's, is it worth me playing a couple of freerolls first, until i get the fundamentals and the basics correct before moving on to low stakes MTT's or should i go straight to the low stakes MTT's?
Further to what clubhammer mentioned, i also have never got involved in commenting on hands on the forum for the fear of being shot down and like clubhammer said, looking stupid. I will hopefully start to get involved with the forum a lot more because i feel it will help me to become a better player.
i've started to go over some of the already posted hands in the "poker clinic" part of the forum and i can see how beneficial it is when you have other people looking and commenting on your good and bad hands.
Finally, Thank you again for your replies & sorry again for it being a tad long-winded...
Mick
GL in your learning Mick
I'm a member and Vice Captain of the HitSquad team and they have helped me improve my game alot since joining, just by talking to like minded poker players and sharing ideas.
I really like the tone of your post and think you would fit in well with the team so would like to extend an invite to you to join us if you are interested and hopefully we can help you with your game.
Micky, you are very welcome, let US Know!!
Maybe we can help you...and you can prob help me with a New Poker Concept I am struggling with!!
Its a new Play called 'FOLD', and I am nearly there, ..I Think..LOL!!
GL Mate
David 'Hitman' Harvey
HitSquad Founder & Capo!!
Honesty is the best policy.
I've had the same problem myself but did have the Harrington books when i first played which provided good fundamentals. However, and i only say this now, after 15 months of playing slightly winning poker that the TAG approach Harrington proposed has now evolved so that instead of putting someone on a single hand, players now should put others on a range of hands. Phil Gordon has three excellent books, the last one GOLD purports this approach and will make your flop, turn and river play stronger. It is detailed though. The GREEN one before is a great read but again it is slightly dated which he recognises in Gold but is still a cracker.
Yes, start with Harrington but but aware that that style of play is rather old-fashioned nowadays and can be exploited by clever players. Yes start with the TAG approach but be aware that there is an evolution to your play. I felt like i'd hit a bit of a wall but posted here and recieved great advice. I decided to overhaul my game, be honest with myself, read articles online, put up hands in the clinic and take the good-natured beatings.
As your play improves and evolves you will stop playing fit/fold poker, though even this can be profitable in low stakes games, and start playing poker post flop winning chips that without evolvng your play , you'd have given up previously.
There realy are so many things you can do Mike but don't lose the fun part of it. enjoy the learning process and get involved. Thats why finally i'd like to recommend that you get Jarhed Tendhlers Mental Game Of Poker. Make a plan, have a couple of books , reassess hands after a T and i promise your game will improve.....cheers m8 and GL
PS Try the dtd on a monday. Its good fun and will give you plenty of hands to assess and post in clinic. You can even join a team with no pressure at all...I've gone on but i know how you feel .......
SUMMARY
Couple of books for sound fundamentals...St hds per position etc
Correct approach to learning (Tendhler)
Enjoy it
Reassess hands after playing with book in front of you
Put difficult hands in clinic
Try to improve post flop play by considering your opponents image and theirs of yours and how your and villains range of hands 'HIT' the board. Consider the betting and narrow their range of possible hands so it helps you to make good decisions. (This last point will come with experience of playing).
PPS I'm a newish member on Team Hitsquad and can say hat my play has improved since joining as well as having fun and getting good advice from better players.
PPPS One point...don't play like the pro's on tv...thats a very wrong way of playing at low stakes and assumes different layers of thinking based on knowledge of playing each other many times before. We don't think like them.
I saw a good quote in an article which saiid
"Don't give a player too much respect until he gives you a reason to do so". ABC poker will work well enough but you should look to advance as it will not work with better players consistently as they will exploit your TAG approach.
I like to think we HITSQUAD are the most open & friendly etc etc, but a debate could go on & on there lol
So in 'No Particular Order'... lol Here is a list of Teams who played the Excellent Forum DTD on Mondays...
ps. I started & run this Forum Team League, as a bolt on to Chris & Michaels Individual Forum DTD League, and I take full responsibility for any offence caused in 'some of my posts'.... sometimes, Other times the plea is plain Insanity!
Forum DTD Team Result WEEK 2 MOVEMBER
[Sponsoring Mo + Si's Tash, anyone else?]
{pm me for namecheck, if u doing a Movember}
[If any Girls are doing a Fanuary, next year, pm me too]
Team Runners Wins TeamPTS LeaguePTS
HitSquad 36 3 34 7
Diamond 12 - 12 6
Poker Titans 16 - 10 5
Team 51 3 - 2 4
Knight Poker 10 - - 3
Dragons 6 - - 2
Ninja Plonkers 5 - - 1
Bring IT 1 - - 0
Movember League Table after Week 2
Team Runners Wins TeamPTS LeaguePTS
HitSquad 73 5 66 14
Diamond 28 - 14 10
Dragons 13 1 11 8
Poker Titans 29 - 10 8
Team 51 9 - 2 6
Bring IT 2 - 5 5
Knight Poker 17 - - 4
Ninja Plonkers 5 - - 1
Well played All Again, another Great Monday Poker Nite
What a great Post by 88Micky. And "88" is my favourite London Bus Route, too. Epic.
The thread advice is spot-on, exactly what we have come to expect from the Community, & I don't have much to add except by way of reinforcing the Harrington advice.
Which is, really.......just get your basics right. Position is VERY important, not limp-calling every hand ditto, don't be playing too many hands, + an understanding of "stack dynamics" at the sharp end of MTT's.
The latter point is known in hardcore terms as ICM, but you don't need to learn that chapter & verse - just understand that as the Tourney progresses, & your stack relative to the Blinds decreases, you have to do various things much differently than you would in the early stages. Early stage MTT play & late stage MTT play are like chalk & cheese - totally different.
Don't forget your C-Bets, either. Early doors, if you pop it up pre-flop with A-K or A-Q & get a caller, even when you completely miss, you MUST C-bet. You'll be amazed how many times it gets through. Late on, even if playing 15 or 20 bigs, don't be afraid of getting the lot in with hands like that either, they are golden hands in the late stages.
If you just want to enjoy some fun poker, at little or no cost, those basics will see you right.
Good luck, & please let us know how you get on.
Secondly, as for the DTD, it sounds like a really good MTT. I'm still going to play a couple freerolls first, just to get my head around playing correctly then move onto the low stakes MTT's, such as the DTD.
Profman & Tikay: Both quality posts, thank you. I will certainly be re-assessing a lot more of my hands. Looking back over my hands is what got me to realising i had to change my play in the first place so i'll definitely be continuing. As you both pointed out, as long as i stick to the basics to begin with and evolve my play from there, i should be ok.... hopefully.
SlyKllist & Hitman_RV: I Appreciate the offer for joining the HitSquad, although, i feel if i were to join, your team's overall skill will drop dramatically ha ha. I don't feel like I should join a team until I've proved to myself first and foremost that i can actually play this game correctly before joining a team, hope this is ok because i certainly appreciate the offer.
And finally...
You have all made this a lot easier and couldn't have asked for better replies, all spot on, Thank you.
Also, i'll try and make any future posts on the forum A LOT SHORTER because i feel like i'm just "waffling" on.... ha ha
Mick
Just so You Know!!
Slykllist is One of My HitSquad vice Captains, Profman is a successful newer Squaddie[6 monthsish i think], & Tikay is one of ou Honarary Mentors, we have many who have joined who are VERY new to poker, and they dovetail in & enjoy as much as more experianced players!!
GL!!
it's been 6 months since my original post and things were going good, I was picking up the basics and playing correctly (for the majority of my play ha ha) but then family, work and college commitments kicked in, a lot quicker than expected and I had to put poker on the back burner for a while. now things are slowly sorting themselves out, meaning I can start playing poker again..... happy days!!
i'm unable to play everyday but i should still be able to play fairly regularly and baring in mind i'll only be playing low stakes MTT's (£1.10 & £2.20). I was thinking of setting myself a target of trying to reach £100? would this be a realistic target for a "newbie" like me to go for or should I set it lower?
OR should I not be setting a money target and just be concentrating on getting the basics correct and just go from there....
Just wondered what (if any) goals/targets people set themselves when first starting out in poker?
Mick
Hey Mick
Nice posts mate.
It depends what you are starting with (bankroll), if you have 20 quid for exmaple, you only have under 10 buyins for a £2 game. Before you said you deposited, busted and re loaded.
It's quite good with the BH on here, cause atleast if you bust you are getting some money back if you have knocked a few folk out. A good few months ago, before i started posting on the forum, i had £20 quid in my account, and won 2 BH in about 3 days, taken my account to over £140, it just takes one win and you are there. But it's hard getting that elusive win! Since then i've not done a lot with MTT's, no decent cashes.
If you are playing for fun, and to learn, just do what you are doing just now.
If you have a bank roll, eg saying "i have £50 quid and want to turn it into x" then by all means do that. But with MTTs, in my opinion, it's quite difficult as the variance is so massive. I started a thread MTT help, to try and help me improve my MTT game as it is my favourite variation of poker. But i've found it can be a massive money pit.
In saying that one bink and you are well on the way.
Good luck mate
Start with cash games, why, because you learn to be a casino style poker layer. You learn the basics much better and like any sport, every branches off the fundamentals.
Also yes read books eventually, but develop your own game first. ive not read one book. I did my own criteria, wrote a journal down, reviews hands against the hand odds sites.
Once you have mastered cash games youll find tourneys much easier imo as you will understand hadn percentages much better. BTW I dont do tourneys, but I do know cash game is the snooker, and tourneys are the pool of the sport(again my opinion).
good luck