Turn 100nl

percival09

This isn't a hand I was involved in. I think it'll probs create decent discussion tho.

We raise to $3 in CO w/ KQo.

multi-tabling, decent looking reg defends bb. We're both 100bb deep.

Flop 7h Jc Qc (pot $6.50)

villain checks and we bet $3.50 and villain flats.

Turn Kd ($13.50)

villain checks and we bet $10 and get raised to $28

what we doing?

grantorino

I prob get it in, but don't mind flatting either

percival09

what's he raising with?

BigHawk89

Same hand as us or might have luckboxed A10 or 910. Dont think he has any sets he probably raises flop with sets. I prefer a call then a shove, if we shove dont think were gettin called by anything worse.

percival09

So we've agreed that he's raising all sets/2pairs otf. 

He's probs not raising KJ ott.

He probs would raise KQ ott.

He's definitely raising A10/910 ott.

He hardly ever has any bluffs in his range here.

So why should we call? Fold, no?

Lambert180

Why isnt he raising KJ ott?

You don't seem to have mentioned hands w/ flush draws at all like KTcc. Guess if he is decent then he'd probably raise the OESD straight flush draw otf

percival09

cos if he views us as good then he's just not cos he probs would make all else fold. He might even flat KQ tbh. yeah you'd think he'd raise K10cc otf cos ppl generally like getting huge combo draws in otf when they have most equity.

Lambert180

I still think raising KJ protects his hand (and gets value) from the possible club draw, straight draw and other outdraws, and obviously our barreling range is gonna be alot wider than his calling range and he should know that.

percival09

you have to think what we're double barreling here, and then with him knowing that, what's he ever raising? A lot of players might even check AA ott. the k hits his range just as much as it hits ours. we're hardly ever double barreling with just AK. villain just hardly ever has air in his range, and giving him a range of KQs, KQo, 910s, A10s, A10o, we have 15% equity. Including KJs and KJo in that range (unlikely imo but poss) we have 32% equity. And 2 of those hands we're splitting with which reduces our ev

percival09

another reason why he's never bluffing is because it's only 100nl and ppl at that limit would probs stack off with KQ and therefore raising as a semi bluff or bluff on that turn would be pretty bad. If you think of it in terms of nut hands to air ratio, he never has air, and has a lot of nut hands which we're splitting with at best.

bearlyther

Im not happy in this spot when i get raised here have to call the turn tho and evaluate on river.

grantorino

In Response to Re: Turn 100nl:

you have to think what we're double barreling here, and then with him knowing that, what's he ever raising? A lot of players might even check AA ott. the k hits his range just as much as it hits ours. we're hardly ever double barreling with just AK. villain just hardly ever has air in his range, and giving him a range of KQs, KQo, 910s, A10s, A10o, we have 15% equity. Including KJs and KJo in that range (unlikely imo but poss) we have 32% equity. And 2 of those hands we're splitting with which reduces our ev
Posted by percival09

Well doesn't seem like you think there is any debate if his range is hands that beat us. Why did u post this? 

Not so sure he can't flat 2p or 77 on flop ever, he may also bluff some AJ type hands ott if he thinks hero is awesome and folds anything worse than a set. He might raise AT, T9 on flop also?

percival09

Because I thought it'd create good discussion, and it seems like it's doing just that. 

I think he's always raising 2p and sets otf - it's a perfect flop to do so. 

I've never said hero is awesome or that villain thinks hero is awesome, i think him turning aj into a bluff is a bit unlikely - his range includes top 2 or straights too often imo, i don't think he's bluffing enough of the time.. I just think it's a good situation and would help a lot of peeps lay down big hands in the right situation. To make people actually think what villain is raising and how it stands vs our range, and the likliness of villain ever bluffing etc.. 

fwiw it was a hand off a training site, and the person in question did stack off and villain did show A10. Isn't a brag to say I could fold or anything, but I think it's a hand that could help a few ppl. Before seeing the results the coach did say it's a fold, and that's the level I'm trying to get to. People need to think more, including myself

beaneh

I don't get it. we're playing online but he 'looks' solid. WAT.

you mean he's got 100bb and we have no other info ?!

bet call turn re-evaluate on the river.