A gamble I should have avoided?

shakinaces

This bugged me from last night.. I think I played pretty well in the main (for a change), but everything seemed to end in *sigh* folds (AA and flopping 3 flush/straight cards, TT and flopping 2-3 overs, the usual mean tricks played by the poker gods).. then this arrived and despite better judgement, eventually led to a *sigh* call of the shove to try and gamble back some money and ended exactly as I was thinking it was as I was letting the timer run down.

So as a query, should QQ be a fold against a player you have no notes on when you receive a 5-bet shove?  Realistically I'm thinking the best it can ever be is AK and a flip, therefore I'm calling my whole stack for a 1 in 3 chance that I'm flipping?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
xSB	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£16.64
xBB	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£9.84
	Your hole cards	Q Q
xUTG	Fold
shakinaces	Raise		£0.40	£0.55	£9.55
xButton	Raise		£0.70	£1.25	£8.29
xSB	Fold
xBB	Fold
shakinaces	Raise		£1.20	£2.45	£8.35
xButton	All-in		£8.29	£10.74	£0.00
shakinaces	Call		£7.39	£18.13	£0.96

SJspanky1

A toughie but unless you know the guy is a total maniac, a 5bet is very rarely gonna be JJ or worse IMO.

UL but at least you have a note on villain now.

beaneh

you are honestly going to see AA/KK a disproportionate amount of time purely because at lower stakes people are so much more likely to minimum 3bet AA/KK exclusively, becuase they want to keep you in, they are willing to reraise with the super strong hands dont know how much and don't want you to fold.

Given that our hand is really strong in this scenario. You can either think that they can go ai with more than KK then you can 4bet and get it in (don't 4bet to fold very often here imo). If not then just call the 3bet and play poker oop with a strong hand. Similarly call the min 3bet when y ou have 9Ts and whatever else you've opened, obviously with the QQ part hold on for the first few streets a bit more than you do with the weaker hands that don't flop aswell so often.

Lambert180

You have to fold here imo now that you've 4bet small, and he's already 3bet small and then 5bet jammed.

The number of times u see people 5bet without KK or AA at this level will be <1% imo.

But as Beaneh said, if you dont wnna get it in, then flat call.

shakinaces

Thanks for the responses, all makes sense - whether or not I can find that fold in future remains to be seen mind!

Out of interest, does this sort of logic (broadly) continue to hold as you go up through the levels or is it more of a factor playing at the low levels? (NL4 bingo excluded)