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10NL - Thoughts on the turn

edited November 2012 in The Poker Clinic
I was discussing this hand with someone and they thought it would be an interesting one to post.

He's raised a lot of flops hence the call.

The main question is, can/should I raise the turn? I'm confident of being ahead byt are there enough hands that call? I think AJ and AQ fold if I raise the turn, he's not gonna have K2, so it's A2 and KT which are both fairly unlikely or big draws like QJcc? So how do you play the turn?

Obv the river is a horrid card, sigh.
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
mikeyd905 Small blind   £0.05 £0.05 £12.04
EvilPingu Big blind   £0.10 £0.15 £10.05
  Your hole cards
  • A
  • 10
     
supercrazy Fold        
shaun09 Fold        
Lambert180 Raise   £0.30 £0.45 £13.86
Bricktop01 Call   £0.30 £0.75 £22.00
mikeyd905 Fold        
EvilPingu Fold        
Flop
   
  • A
  • K
  • 2
     
Lambert180 Bet   £0.50 £1.25 £13.36
Bricktop01 Raise   £1.30 £2.55 £20.70
Lambert180 Call   £0.80 £3.35 £12.56
Turn
   
  • 10
     
Lambert180 Check        
Bricktop01 Bet   £1.70 £5.05 £19.00
Lambert180 Call   £1.70 £6.75 £10.86
River
   
  • K
     
Lambert180 Check        
Bricktop01 Bet   £3.40 £10.15 £15.60
Lambert180 Fold        
Bricktop01 Muck        
Bricktop01 Win   £6.24   £21.84
Bricktop01 Return   £3.40 £0.51 £25.24

Comments

  • edited November 2012
    A fairly decent lay down. Dont think 2pair would win and most people usually go allin @ 10NL so would say that he had JQclubs. Could also represent the hand but unlikely. I think you played the hand correctly.would be very tough to fold 2pair on the turn
  • edited November 2012
    Im not folding this river his line just doesnt make any sense to me,  Whats he repping on the flop flush draws, q10, qj pocket 2s when he raises that flop.  Then on the turn we check call which is fine.  On the river another king comes and he wants be bet the king.  What was he raising with on the flop if he wants to bet the king on the river. Im snapping him off here his line just doesnt make any sense only hand were losing to is qj which is not enough of the time.
  • edited November 2012
    sigh river think u have o fold 

    but im raising the turn here to around £4.50 
  • edited November 2012
    bet or c/c the turn - both seem reasonable lines
    but if you c/c the turn shouldn't you also c/c the river? you are letting him take the lead so no surprise he thinks he can bet you off the pot with a "scary" river card.

    I suppose Kx clubs could be in his range. if so take notes and next time raise the turn.
  • edited November 2012
    In Response to Re: 10NL - Thoughts on the turn:
    Im not folding this river his line just doesnt make any sense to me,  Whats he repping on the flop flush draws, q10, qj pocket 2s when he raises that flop.  Then on the turn we check call which is fine.  On the river another king comes and he wants be bet the king.  What was he raising with on the flop if he wants to bet the king on the river. Im snapping him off here his line just doesnt make any sense only hand were losing to is qj which is not enough of the time.
    Posted by bearlyther
    He's 'repping' 22, AK, Kxcc, QJcc, and an aggressively played AQ or AJ. None of which Lambert beats on the river. So why is it a snap call?
  • edited November 2012
    Id call all day
  • edited November 2012
    In Response to Re: 10NL - Thoughts on the turn:
    In Response to Re: 10NL - Thoughts on the turn : He's 'repping' 22, AK, Kxcc, QJcc, and an aggressively played AQ or AJ. None of which Lambert beats on the river. So why is it a snap call?
    Posted by CoxyLboro
    Well he could have flat called with ak but its unlikely as most people will 3 bet so im going to rule that out from his range.  No reason for him to raise with a king on the flop with a hand like kq as hes turning showdown into a bluff, i suppose he could have raised the flop with aq or aj but that would be spewy imo as there is no reason to folding out hands that we beat and not getting called by worse.  So therefore i just think his line looks spewy thats why i call.
  • edited November 2012
    In Response to Re: 10NL - Thoughts on the turn:
    In Response to Re: 10NL - Thoughts on the turn : He's 'repping' 22, AK, Kxcc, QJcc, and an aggressively played AQ or AJ. None of which Lambert beats on the river. So why is it a snap call?
    Posted by CoxyLboro

    you're only arguing one way and it's joke narrow range your putting him on.


    non K rivers would be joke easy snap call if he's been raising flops regularly, this is a rly gay river but i'd prob still c/c.
  • edited November 2012
    Think you played it fine.

    Calling seems bad to me especially after playing this level a couple of times.

    And just because he raised a few flops I don't think this suddenly means hes gonna be randomly triple barrelling with air.  The K river is one of the worst cards for him to be bluffing on too so that would makes me think that he has a value hand.

    Agree that non K rivers makes it a pretty snap call and like the way you played turn too.
  • edited November 2012
    I dont understand why the king is a bad river for us as why would he raise the flop with a king?  He could raise the flop with ak but ive ruled that out of his range as the majority of the time people 3 bet pre.  
  • edited November 2012
    In Response to Re: 10NL - Thoughts on the turn:
    I dont understand why the king is a bad river for us as why would he raise the flop with a king?
    Posted by bearlyther
    Because now we are behind to AQ/AJ.  We are also now behind to KXcc.

    Also it makes it far less likely he is bluffing as people don't generally don't fold 2prs at 10nl.
  • edited November 2012
    In Response to Re: 10NL - Thoughts on the turn:
    In Response to Re: 10NL - Thoughts on the turn : Because now we are behind to AQ/AJ.  We are also now behind to KXcc. Also it makes it far less likely he is bluffing as people don't generally don't fold 2prs at 10nl.
    Posted by scotty77
    Yes we are behind to them hands and im not saying hes not raising these hands on the flop as i dont know what type of player he is just think its spewy if he has raised the flop with aq or aj as not getting called by better and folding out worse hands.  And yes i agree when the board pairs on the river its a bad card for him to bluff on but i dont know i might level myself into a call here.  Also i think he would bet bigger on the river with a king.
  • edited November 2012
    probably call and see Kxcc

    highly depends on reads, fold is ok

    rest is played fine, maybe shove river as a bluff )

    can't see oppo betting river with worse !! we split with every other Ax - so what missed FD&SD Q10cc - possible but READS !!
  • edited November 2012
    Im not folding :D

    You have played this sooo passive sigh, id say Kx is less in his range unless its club/club as cant see why he would ever re-raise flop

    Only hand i think he beats us is K10, otherwise i think we are good as played.

    Hero fail :)
  • edited November 2012
    You say he raises a lot of flops but youve never seen anything shown down? The hand becomes easy if you can remember any of the hands hes shown after doing this.
  • edited November 2012
    Either most people have noticed and just don't care or people haven't noticed...

    My 2pr has been counterfeitted so now A2 - A9 have just caught up and are splitting, and AJ and AQ have just gone ahead of me, AK always was obv.

    I've played it passive because at no point can I raise for value or raise and make stronger hands fold imo.

    Do we have him on exclusively a FD then, cos that is the only hand I can beat now and I can't even beat it if it was Kxcc??

    What hands do you think he plays like this that I beat on the river? And what hands does he play like this that I don't beat?

    EDIT: To be honest, I think the river is a pretty easy fold, but either way, the point of the thread was 'can we raise the turn for value and should we?'
  • edited November 2012
    In Response to Re: 10NL - Thoughts on the turn:
    Either most people have noticed and just don't care or people haven't noticed... My 2pr has been counterfeitted so now A2 - A9 have just caught up and are splitting, and AJ and AQ have just gone ahead of me, AK always was obv. I've played it passive because at no point can I raise for value or raise and make stronger hands fold imo. Do we have him on exclusively a FD then, cos that is the only hand I can beat now and I can't even beat it if it was Kxcc?? What hands do you think he plays like this that I beat on the river? And what hands does he play like this that I don't beat? EDIT: To be honest, I think the river is a pretty easy fold, but either way, the point of the thread was 'can we raise the turn for value and should we?'
    Posted by Lambert180

    what  hands does he raise that widens his raising range on the flop, what hands can you get value from on the turn ?
  • edited November 2012
    In Response to Re: 10NL - Thoughts on the turn:
    In Response to Re: 10NL - Thoughts on the turn : what  hands does he raise that widens his raising range on the flop, what hands can you get value from on the turn ?
    Posted by beaneh
    Sorry might be being stupid, but what do you mean by this? lol.

    As for the second part, I said this in my OP but I think it's pretty much only A2, KT and flush draws, so I think it's pretty thin (hence me posting the hand) but it feels dirty allowing him to bet so small on the turn and set his own price for when he does have weaker hands/draws
  • edited November 2012
    thin value if you raise turn, don't think you should raise turn

    like offshoot mentions earlier, without any reads on what oppo would showdown in the situation it's very difficult to say you should call more often

    if oppo raises flop often then by default you have to widen oppo's range -
    plus do you notice any varaition in the flop raise sizes against what oppo showdown
    It's always difficult if you have no solid history

  • edited November 2012
    In Response to Re: 10NL - Thoughts on the turn:
    In Response to Re: 10NL - Thoughts on the turn : Sorry might be being stupid, but what do you mean by this? lol. As for the second part, I said this in my OP but I think it's pretty much only A2, KT and flush draws, so I think it's pretty thin (hence me posting the hand) but it feels dirty allowing him to bet so small on the turn and set his own price for when he does have weaker hands/draws
    Posted by Lambert180

    you  say he's raising flops, is he raising draws, weak top pair, bottom pair, is he raising the flop even though he folded pre just because he thinks you're a little girl?!



  • edited November 2012
    i remener this, i had flush draw cant remember wha cards, know i had missed flushed though, how do i find out my cards
  • edited November 2012
    In Response to Re: 10NL - Thoughts on the turn:
    i remener this, i had flush draw cant remember wha cards, know i had missed flushed though, how do i find out my cards
    Posted by Bricktop01
    My sky poker then hand history click from last week
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