How to explain to people who dont play poker that it isnt gambling

bearlyther

Read this.

http://www.daleroxxu.co.uk/2009/11/10-questions-not-to-ask-me-about-poker.html

bearlyther

Tilts the life out of me people who think its gambling!  I dont bet on horses, football play roulette blackjack or any of that nonsence all i do is play poker and they think i have a gambling problem!  Il be on the grind and a visitor comes into the house and hear them saying to dad as long as hes not getting addicted to it.  Or if someone asks me any wins lately and i tell them and they proceed to tell me that all them sites are fixed and you will win when they want you to win! Or if they ask me if i had any luck last night and i tell them no cashes and thell be like how much did you lose?  An another occasion about a month ago i was in a taxi on my way to dusk till dawn for the spt 6 max and the taxi driver started shaking his head and then proceeded to tell me how bad gambling was and what it can do to peoples lives.

I reliase these people dont play poker so its not there fault that they dont understand but its when i try to explain to them about it and they dont listen and they say quit while your ahead as they will always get you in the long run them sites are there to make money not lose!

Thought this would create interesting discussion if anyone else has any stories like this or how they go about explaining to people that dont play poker that there not gambling.

1267

Nice post dohhh.

The 'will you double up 100£ for me ' is so tilting !

As for the original Op.  just need to explain to people that the site do not care which player wins, and the site makes money regardless of the outcome.  Some people wont understand it regardless, but that's life.

devonfish5

had the same sort of thing from my mum when i first started playing...
"oh you'll never win..you're just like your father" sort of thing.
mind you,he did gamble away the 3 family homes they were buying when i was just a kid,on the horses,so i can see why she would think that way.
soon put her straight though every time i went around to see her,and told her the new improved bankroll.
now she just askes me,"how much you won then" when i see her. lol

(* *)
   ^
dev

1267

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxC9EiDbRhE&feature=related

LOL_RAISE

well poker is gambling, that doesnt mean it cant be +EV

Die_hard

Try explaining +ev to them and watch their 'the poor gambler is deluded' faces lol.

I don't even bother trying to explain to anyone anymore. Waste of time!

Oh, and yeah - taxi drivers, you can't even get away from them whilst they babble on about how much you'll end up losing haha.

FlyingDagg

My story is identical to yours Bearlythere. I'm 100% not a gambler with not even a bet on the National. I've never been in a bookies and my first visit to a casino was at Blackpool SPT. The only thing I spent money on was the Pools 39 years ago and the lottery for a year or 2 when it started. And yes I do get people saying Oh you play poker? Yes I do. But not for real money? Yes real money.OMG do be careful Dale people lose their houses and stuff! I even had a relation on FB telling me that gambling is a sin.
Anyway is it gambling or not?. If you back horses or sports bet or play roulette your wagering money on something you have no control over. To me that is a complete gamble. With poker I can influence how things turn out with my own input so I'm tending towards it not being gambling. More like paying to play a game I love and if I win that's even better.
And I also tried to explain to a non poker player how a poker site works and I gave up after half an hour.

IDONKCALLU

good link dohhhh made me laugh i get asked this everyday by m8es they dnt understand none of em play poker i say i mae 200 aday they think i can earn this everyday lol 

i like the opening post this be a good read 

FlashFlush

It is annoying yes! We have all had to deal wih it, the longer we play the more it carries on!!

I think I've finally got through to my parents about it, but believe it or not most of my mates who I was mates with when I first started about 6 years ago still don't believe I make money at it...

Just try and explain how the house makes the money. Using STT/MTT style rake seems to be the best. If they still don't understand or refuse to believe you then just give up. That's their problem not yours.

IDONKCALLU

made me laugh that link soooooooo true n funny the double me up £100 had me in stitches lol 

Donttelmum

I have the same problem bearly.  Esp from my parents.  I ended up teaching my Dad the game and now he understands more.  The old lady is different but I told her the other day that poker is a cross between sudoku and chess.  She seemed to like that.

This is a tougher problem to slove than winning the super roller!

yoyo

i can empathise with you bearlythere,

over the years i think the majority of folk i know have learnt that there is an element of skill to poker, the rest will probably always harbour doubts & think of me as a gambler & who is liable to lose it all at some point in the not too distant future.

i've given up/can't be bothered attempting to explain

VespaPX

Investing your hard earned money into a pension scheme is probably more of a gamble these days.

At least with poker you have some sort of control over your money !

DAVEYZZ

In Response to How to explain to people who dont play poker that it isnt gambling:

Tilts the life out of me people who think its gambling!  I dont bet on horses, football play roulette blackjack or any of that nonsence all i do is play poker and they think i have a gambling problem!  Il be on the grind and a visitor comes into the house and hear them saying to dad as long as hes not getting addicted to it.  Or if someone asks me any wins lately and i tell them and they proceed to tell me that all them sites are fixed and you will win when they want you to win! Or if they ask me if i had any luck last night and i tell them no cashes and thell be like how much did you lose?  An another occasion about a month ago i was in a taxi on my way to dusk till dawn for the spt 6 max and the taxi driver started shaking his head and then proceeded to tell me how bad gambling was and what it can do to peoples lives. I reliase these people dont play poker so its not there fault that they dont understand but its when i try to explain to them about it and they dont listen and they say quit while your ahead as they will always get you in the long run them sites are there to make money not lose! Thought this would create interesting discussion if anyone else has any stories like this or how they go about explaining to people that dont play poker that there not gambling.

Posted by bearlyther

Poker is gambling,just with a skill element factored in.......but the so is blackjack

Plenty of players have lost everything they own due to poker......

IDONKCALLU

poker is a skill game if it was luck i wouldnt play the game

bearlyther

In Response to Re: How to explain to people who dont play poker that it isnt gambling:

My story is identical to yours Bearlythere. I'm 100% not a gambler with not even a bet on the National. I've never been in a bookies and my first visit to a casino was at Blackpool SPT. The only thing I spent money on was the Pools 39 years ago and the lottery for a year or 2 when it started. And yes I do get people saying Oh you play poker? Yes I do. But not for real money? Yes real money.OMG do be careful Dale people lose their houses and stuff! I even had a relation on FB telling me that gambling is a sin. Anyway is it gambling or not?. If you back horses or sports bet or play roulette your wagering money on something you have no control over. To me that is a complete gamble. With poker I can influence how things turn out with my own input so I'm tending towards it not being gambling. More like paying to play a game I love and if I win that's even better. And I also tried to explain to a non poker player how a poker site works and I gave up after half an hour.
Posted by FlyingDagg

Yep aggree with this i dont get any kick out of these things what so ever as its something which i have no control over.  Im probobly in a bookies about once every 3 weeks with a couple of my mates as they like to go there but sit there and watch them do the greyhounds and roulette i dont even have any interest to put £1 on! 

Curt360x27

In Response to Re: How to explain to people who dont play poker that it isnt gambling:

My story is identical to yours Bearlythere. I'm 100% not a gambler with not even a bet on the National. I've never been in a bookies and my first visit to a casino was at Blackpool SPT. The only thing I spent money on was the Pools 39 years ago and the lottery for a year or 2 when it started. And yes I do get people saying Oh you play poker? Yes I do. But not for real money? Yes real money.OMG do be careful Dale people lose their houses and stuff! I even had a relation on FB telling me that gambling is a sin. Anyway is it gambling or not?. If you back horses or sports bet or play roulette your wagering money on something you have no control over. To me that is a complete gamble. With poker I can influence how things turn out with my own input so I'm tending towards it not being gambling. More like paying to play a game I love and if I win that's even better. And I also tried to explain to a non poker player how a poker site works and I gave up after half an hour.
Posted by FlyingDagg

With this statement are you not just being like the people who bearlyther is referring to? Just because you have little understanding of something your assuming sports betting is a 'complete gamble' which is in essence the same as someone who doesn't play poker making uneducated assumptions about the game. 

Agree with OP though and it can get frustrating when people say some ignorant and ridiculous things especially when it's people you don't know very well. I used to try and explain things and would fight my corner till the end with something until I proved myself right however I think over time ive learned its best to just humour them. 

Thankfully ive been fairly lucky, my close family have learned to understand what I do and are actually quite interested in how I get on.

IDONKCALLU

people who sports bet some are gamblers some have an edge as they know more about the sport then others 

rancid

tis gambling, no such thing as a sure thing - unless you hold the nutz/lock )

FlyingDagg

In Response to Re: How to explain to people who dont play poker that it isnt gambling:

In Response to Re: How to explain to people who dont play poker that it isnt gambling : With this statement are you not just being like the people who bearlyther is referring to? Just because you have little understanding of something your assuming sports betting is a 'complete gamble' which is in essence the same as someone who doesn't play poker making uneducated assumptions about the game.  Agree with OP though and it can get frustrating when people say some ignorant and ridiculous things especially when it's people you don't know very well. I used to try and explain things and would fight my corner till the end with something until I proved myself right however I think over time ive learned its best to just humour them.  Thankfully ive been fairly lucky, my close family have learned to understand what I do and are actually quite interested in how I get on.
Posted by Curt360x27

Possibly I feel into the trap there but I said that to try and explain why I thought backing horses or any sport betting was different to poker that's all. If you place a bet on a horse there is nothing you can do alter the outcome. You are relying on someones elses skill to win that  bet for you. I know there is skill involved and to place bets can involve a vast amount of knowledge about form etc. But unlike poker you can't influence the outcome. Maybe I shouldn't have lumped Roulette in with it as that is definateley gambling with no skill involved. I don't know if it's the same for most people but if someone mentions gambling it's a natural thing to think of Horse Racing before anything else.

BigMikeDBC

There was a court ruling in the US a few months ago, where the Judge concluded that poker was a game of skill:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/207/poker-headlines/court-ruling-states-poker-game-skill-1237124/

BUFC

For me it is gambling yes but you have an element of control over it. My Dad often tells me 'not to p**s away money at poker'. I'm a small winner, nothing huge but I deposited a small amount on here back in May and am roughly at 45x what I originally deposited. I tend to just ignore him now. 

Slightly agree with IDCU about having an edge is sports betting but all bookies will price a market up at 120% and yes you may have some inside information but generally shocks do happen in sports and thats why we all love watching them. Much more control over poker than sports betting.

unknown_username

HI B

Enjoyed the post. I've not been playing for long. Like Flying Dagg, i don't gamble. In fact i hate it as i've no control as i have no ability in those areas...or should i use the word 'skill'. Been to Las Vegas and local casino's but see it more as £30 for a bit of fun. Almost as iif its an entry fee for a pleasant experience. Poker is a lot more than that and that's why it's come to the fore. I certainly can enjoy the game but i don't like throwing money away.

Game theory can show the correct unexploitable plays to stop you losing at say noughts and crosses or other simple games. Poker is too complex even though in simplified circumstances best plays can be indicated. Consequently, experience, knowledge of your opponents, equity calculations showing whether a bet you make  is correct mathematically or not all contribute to your strategy. This makes it too complex to formulate a easy winning strategy.  Yes bots have been developed and are improving but need HUDs to input the info.

I certainly enjoy trying to learn the game and it is certainly skillful imo. It is interesting and there are a lot of life skills whic can be learned from it...(dealing with 'bad' luck, formulating a plan, being organised etc). There's a lot more to it but i suppse poker players are the only one's to know it!

daphne56

certain parts of poker are a gamble abluff is a is a gamble  but as long as your whole stack is not envolved you can bail out were as once you have laid a bet on a horse or football thats final two options win or lose i must admit i will bet on anything with value oh blast my fly has just fallen of the window

memfno

of course poker is gambling. you are using statistical information to make a decision, ie on the river you believe you have a number of outs that warrant you calling because of the size of your final call in comparison to the total pot. Post your call the final outcome will be decided by...................wait for it................drum roll...............LUCK! their will be no impact of experience on the nature of the final card, the amount of times you have been in that position and won or lost will have no impact, the cards have no memory, nor do they know how fortunate or not you have been in the countless times you have been waiting on that deciding river card before. you are gambling. you play poker, you are a gambler. if you choose to hold negative associations with that word, then that is your psychological problem. you are a gambler, you tie your fortunes to the turn of a card, deal with it

GELDY

In Response to Re: How to explain to people who dont play poker that it isnt gambling:

of course poker is gambling....... you play poker, you are a gambler. if you choose to hold negative associations with that word, then that is your psychological problem. you are a gambler, you tie your fortunes to the turn of a card, deal with it
Posted by memfno

any individual hand or bet may be a gamble in your sense of the word, but good poker players don't gamble - they play percentages - they use their skill at deciphering the info in the hand, along with past experiences based on similar hands, and notes on the same people, to make evaluated bets.

i find there are two main types of people who play poker - those who like to gamble - and those who don't - and there are enough of the latter to confirm to me that poker isn't just about gambling.

my analogy is to relate poker to chess - but with a big dollop of chance on top. so  you can be "lucky" enough to beat phil hellmuth* in any one hand - but you won't do so in the longer term - why - because over the long term his skill overwhelms the luck factor. but the reason many of us play is that in the short term we might beat phil.

* insert preferred poker pro name here

DTWBANDIT

 it's all about the ChallenGe, theBuZZ & THE fun/fun,fun. ELE_MENT...

offshoot

I think you're doing any argument you try to make a disservice if you're are saying to people poker isn't gambling, it will just make you seem deluded, because it is...

Gambling is the wagering of money or something of material value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods.

Dont kid yourself otherwise. It doesn't matter how good or bad you are at the game. Obviously the point to make is that gambling with an edge is no bad thing.

mj8bs

In Response to Re: How to explain to people who dont play poker that it isnt gambling:

I think you're doing any argument you try to make a disservice if you're are saying to people poker isn't gambling, it will just make you seem deluded, because it is... Gambling is the wagering of money or something of material value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods. Dont kid yourself otherwise. It doesn't matter how good or bad you are at the game. Obviously the point to make is that gambling with an edge is no bad thing.
Posted by offshoot

THIS. OFC its gambling. The second you enter any money into a pot, the outcome is uncertain and therefore you are gambling the money you put in.

What I love about poker is you can sometimes get disproportionate odds. Unless you know a very ropey bookie, where else are you gonna get even money with your AA to beat AK aipf despite being a huge 90+% favorite! Or better yet get even money on the flop with 100% chance of winning (i managed to get it in with quads vs a lower set)

GaryQQQ

Agree that short-term poker results are determined mainly by luck while insisting that long term results are always determined by skill, because the luck will have levelled out over the course of time.

As proof show them Olivier Busquet's Sharkscope graphs (Adonis112 on PS, livb112 on FTP) and ask them to explain how this could possibly happen if poker was purely a game of luck.