what u all doing in this spot???

THEROCK573

Hand History #597117024 (21:35 12/12/2012) the oppo has wierdly been opening for a 5x raise then in this hand he decides to open for a 3x raise which swayed me towards a fold. dont think im ever better than racing here but its a kick in the nutz to fold ak at times. 
my stack is 14k cos u cant see on herePlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalancechazzer89Small blind 75.0075.0010915.00TsaaaarBig blind 150.00225.004200.00 Your hole cardsKA   heddoh18Raise 450.00675.005930.00THEROCK573Raise 1050.001725.0013375.00foolhowsFold    FEARLEZZFold    chazzer89Fold    TsaaaarFold    heddoh18All-in 5930.007655.000.00THEROCK573Fold    heddoh18Muck    heddoh18Win 2325.00 2325.00heddoh18Return 5330.000.007655.00

Curt360x27

Snapping and you should be too.

jonjo75

I'm calling. You still have a 50+ bb stack if you lose.

bearlyther

Easy allin. But 3 bet folding is the worst of all options.  When you 3 bet you have to do it with a plan  eg. 3 bet inducing to get it in or 3 bet bluffing.  How can we 3 bet bluff here with ak?  If your intending on folding to a 4 bet never ever 3 bet unless your bluffing which you arnt as you have ak and should be loking to get it in here.  If your plan is to fold to a 4bet allin which it shouldnt then why dont you flat pre?  Im not saying i like flatting here because i dont but its a lot better than 3 bet folding ak.

unknown_username

Hi R

Your stack size is needed here as whether you have him covered matters to the calculations. He raises , you three bet and he 4 bets. i'll assume you do have him covered. Well it needs a range that you have him for that action. if its TT+, AK+ then have 43% equity versus that range. So if you have him covered then you need
5030 to win 7655 which means you need better than 5030x100/(5030+7655)%equity=38.8%. Consequently you should call.

However, the mathematics are only as good as the assumptions made.

Even if his 4 bet range is KK+, AK+ then you still have 40%equity versus that range and can still call.
With the margins being so close, i'd suggest that your image of him in previous hands would play a part in this decision now.

(for these calculations you need pokerstove which is free. The idea is to do them after problem hands to give you an idea the next time.)

NColley

Might of peeled a flop instead of 3betting sometimes, if I 3bet I'm not folding unless the 10k stack behind cold 4bets.

bearlyther

Why 3 bet if your folding to a 4bet?  Were you bluffing?

THEROCK573

In Response to Re: what u all doing in this spot???:

Hi R Your stack size is needed here as whether you have him covered matters to the calculations. He raises , you three bet and he 4 bets. i'll assume you do have him covered. Well it needs a range that you have him for that action. if its TT+, AK+ then have 43% equity versus that range. So if you have him covered then you need 5030 to win 7655 which means you need better than 5030x100/(5030+7655)%equity=38.8%. Consequently you could call. However, the mathematics are only as good as the assumptions made. Even if his 4 bet range is KK+, AK+ then you still have 40%equity versus that range and can still call. With the margins being so close, i'd suggest that your image of him in previous hands would play a part in this decision now. (for these calculations you need pokerstove which is free. The idea is to do them after problem hands to give you an idea the next time.)
Posted by profman15

my stack size is 14k, it does say were the hh is posted.

THEROCK573

In Response to Re: what u all doing in this spot???:

Why 3 bet if your folding to a 4bet?  Were you bluffing?
Posted by bearlyther

no, im hardly bluffing with ak,its is a premium hand. whats he 4 bet jamming with tho???  i understand ur point about 3 bet folding and its not something i do with ak as a rule but sometimes ur gut instinct takes over and tells u ak is no good here.

unknown_username

In Response to Re: what u all doing in this spot???:

In Response to Re: what u all doing in this spot??? : my stack size is 14k, it does say were the hh is posted.
Posted by THEROCK573

 sorry mate, missed it. So the maths say call. ....and much better players than me are saying its a snap call. So it seems the maths and experience agree

DOHHHHHHH

Call! Or flat the initial bet. 

like the 3b/call.

DOHHHHHHH

sounds obvious, and every1 has said the same, but dnt really know what else we can say..........? 

what kinda hands was he 5xing? 

THEROCK573

In Response to Re: what u all doing in this spot???:

sounds obvious, and every1 has said the same, but dnt really know what else we can say..........?  what kinda hands was he 5xing? 
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

i seen him do it with Q10, and KJ, the rest never went to showdown, allways get suspicious of someone when they change there sizing.

bearlyther

Your probobly flipping with something like jacks 10s but you say he has been 5x raising then this is a dream spot for us as he could easily ship aq or aj , qk here if hes been playing like that dream spot for us especially given the dynamic that we know hes crazy

DOHHHHHHH

meh he sounds terrible. 

I'm v happily getting it in. 

spose if u get the feeling something is up and really don't fancy it, 3b/folding this deep isn't 'that big' a mistake. 

Risk aversion seems to work on sky. 

Standard 3b/get it in for me though.

THEROCK573

In Response to Re: what u all doing in this spot???:

Your probobly flipping with something like jacks 10s but you say he has been 5x raising then this is a dream spot for us as he could easily ship aq or aj , qk here if hes been playing like that dream spot for us especially given the dynamic that we know hes crazy
Posted by bearlyther

i never said he was playing crazy, his opening raise was 5x thats all and for this hand he changed to a 3x. he wasnt playing like a lunatic by any means

rancid

snap it off then sigh when random bad shows you AA )
Then again it could be AQ or 88 or even some mad KJ


If they don't know what their doing, how the hell are you supposed to work out what thier doing )

seppe

In Response to Re: what u all doing in this spot???:

In Response to Re: what u all doing in this spot??? : i never said he was playing crazy, his opening raise was 5x thats all and for this hand he changed to a 3x. he wasnt playing like a lunatic by any means
Posted by THEROCK573

u mentioned he 5x with q10 kj kinda hands so that = crazy lol

AMYBR

So many people sit and play and dont really pay attention to things they ought to.  Here you mentally noted it then continued on as though you hadnt.  Kinda strange.

If your spidey sense was up, flatting is ok here.  See if you can glean something from how he plays through streets rather than 3bet to fold.  3bet folding can be fine, but not with your reads and AKs

THEROCK573

In Response to Re: what u all doing in this spot???:

So many people sit and play and dont really pay attention to things they ought to.  Here you mentally noted it then continued on as though you hadnt.  Kinda strange. If your spidey sense was up, flatting is ok here.  See if you can glean something from how he plays through streets rather than 3bet to fold.  3bet folding can be fine, but not with your reads and AKs
Posted by AMYBR

so many people sit and play and never make a mistake in a tournament either, suppose thats why they smash all the tournaments on the site.

a friend of mine who is a pro has over a 100k in winnings says he would fold in the same spot with no history with the player so thats good enough for me!!

jonjo75

In Response to Re: what u all doing in this spot???:

In Response to Re: what u all doing in this spot??? : so many people sit and play and never make a mistake in a tournament either, suppose thats why they smash all the tournaments on the site. a friend of mine who is a pro has over a 100k in winnings says he would fold in the same spot with no history with the player so thats good enough for me!!
Posted by THEROCK573

Why do you ask the question on here? To here peoples views on the hand or just to have your play confirmed because it seems to me you had your mind made up it was the right play anyway.

THEROCK573

In Response to Re: what u all doing in this spot???:

In Response to Re: what u all doing in this spot??? : Why do you ask the question on here? To here peoples views on the hand or just to have your play confirmed because it seems to me you had your mind made up it was the right play anyway.
Posted by jonjo75

just cos i think its right dosent mean it is, im still learning like lots of others are, i respect the opinions of others but we all have different thought processes about the game. if everyone thought this same then life would be pretty boring. this thread is going nowhere anyway, the hands done so it cant be changed.

AMYBR

In Response to Re: what u all doing in this spot???:

In Response to Re: what u all doing in this spot??? : Why do you ask the question on here? To here peoples views on the hand or just to have your play confirmed because it seems to me you had your mind made up it was the right play anyway.
Posted by jonjo75

Thanks for saving my fingers the work   Response baffles my tbh.

so many people sit and play and never make a mistake in a tournament either, suppose thats why they smash all the tournaments on the site. : makes no relative sense.

friend of mine who is a pro has over a 100k in winnings says he would fold in the same spot with no history with the player so thats good enough for me : makes no relative sense and makes the post moot. 

rancid

Don't think you should be 3 b/foiding verus oppo's stack tbh

If your not calling the 4 bet shove then just flat pre, because you 3 bet you just have to snap it off