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10NL - Hand ranges when he shoves turn?

Lambert180Lambert180
edited December 2012 in The Poker Clinic
No brainer against an unknown IMO.
You didn't do anything wrong.
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited December 2012
    What hands do you put him on when he shoves the turn? Didn't have any notes on villian (I do now after this hand).

    Turn raise should be a bit bigger to make the river ship easier.
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    poshjule29 Small blind   £0.05 £0.05 £6.03
    _AAAKK_ Big blind   £0.10 £0.15 £5.09
      Your hole cards
    • 2
    • 2
    		     
    tex4444 Fold        
    matrixxs Fold        
    XXX Raise   £0.40 £0.55 £9.44
    Lambert180 Call   £0.40 £0.95 £9.82
    poshjule29 Fold        
    _AAAKK_ Fold        
    Flop
       
    • A
    • Q
    • 3
    		     
    XXX Check        
    Lambert180 Check        
    Turn
       
    • 2
    		     
    XXX Bet   £0.71 £1.66 £8.73
    Lambert180 Raise   £1.90 £3.56 £7.92
    XXX All-in   £8.73 £12.29 £0.00
    Lambert180 All-in   £7.92 £20.21 £0.00
    Lambert180 Unmatched bet   £0.38 £19.83 £0.38
          
          

          
          
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  • percival09percival09
    edited December 2012
    take results out imo, and change title so it doesnt make result so obv ;-)

    it's fine, i think he'll show up with worse 2p/1p/draws oftenenough. we have a setzies
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited December 2012
    In Response to Re: 10NL - How often is this not a bigger set?:
    take results out imo, and change title so it doesnt make result so obv ;-) it's fine, i think he'll show up with worse 2p/1p/draws oftenenough. we have a setzies
    Posted by percival09
    Done, although I can't alter the title of people's replies... sigh.

    And cheers
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  • BorinLonerBorinLoner
    edited December 2012
    Raise bigger on the turn. If he's got a hand to call, he'll call for more than just £1.19.

    Once he's checked the flop, he's either giving up with something like TT and lower, pot-controlling with KK or he has an Ace or better. If he was raising pre-flop with anything else, he'd c-bet this board. So when he bets the turn you should think he's either going to not put another penny in the pot or he'll be willing to put alot more in. So don't let him get to showdown cheaply with AT, etc.. Raise bigger.

    It's a cooler, of course. If you'd got away from it you'd be getting slaughtered by IDONK, rancid and percival right now. :)
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  • beanehbeaneh
    edited December 2012
    In Response to Re: 10NL - How often is this not a bigger set?:
    No brainer against an unknown IMO. You didn't do anything wrong.
    Posted by Popeye747


    thread title = poor
    results in hh = poor and unhelpful

    why do you check the flop?
    why do you raise the turn?
    what does raising the turn achieve?
    have you ever raised a 2o turn without having 22?
    why do you call his 3bet shove?
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited December 2012
    In Response to Re: 10NL - Hand ranges when he shoves turn?:
    In Response to  Re: 10NL - How often is this not a bigger set? : thread title = poor results in hh = poor and unhelpful why do you check the flop? why do you raise the turn? what does raising the turn achieve? have you ever raised a 2o turn without having 22? why do you call his 3bet shove?
    Posted by beaneh
    So tilted, just got about 90% through a reply to this that was all colour coded in response to your different questions lol but here goes again...

    This is fixed now, although annoyingly can't alter the titles in people's replies.

    Because I probably make all worse hands fold (although that's probably not too bad as anyone has at least 2 overs on me), and just value town myself, although thinking about it, I can make better PPs than mine fold.

    Because I have a strong hand and want to try to get stacks in by the river. What I  achieve by raising the turn (if I'd done it properly) is set up the pot size for a pot sized bet jam on the river.

    Probably not but I don't worry too much about balancing my range against the vast majority of villians at this level

    Well I'm sighing thinking I've just walked into set over set again but that's mostly based on recent results (I think/hope) and thinking/hoping he can turn up with some worse 1pr and 2pr hands, maybe the odd draw

    How did I do? :)

    ... wait to be ripped apart lol.



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  • beanehbeaneh
    edited December 2012
    I could have just told you the answers, I asked the questions like that so you'd answer them and have to think about it.


    do you get no better hands to fold on the flop?

    green/brown v good. well done.

    last bit tbh honestly once you rep 22 and he 3bets ai he's got a set lol. maybe AQ but that's literally all the 2prs.



    what hands that you peel would you bet the flop when checked to on this texture?
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited December 2012
    Yeah I know why you do it, it's a good/essential learning method cos I need to be able to figure these things out for myself.

    Yeah I mentioned I can get bigger PPs fold, and I suppose I can make him fold if he's crazy and has some crazy stuff like J3o, don't think any Ax or Qx is folding.

    Yeah I kinda knew it was a set, but just being a station/non-believer which is why I posted it, cos I don't think it' is just a standard cooler than I can just chalk down to bad luck and just be happy about the spot.

    Hmm, I wouldn't have thought he ever skips the c-bet with any Ax (including AA) so I'd probably bet the flop when I've peeled with KQ and QJ. I'd probably also bet all the hands I'd peel with that have completely missed like 89s, T9s etc. The difference for me with them kinda hands is that I can make all the hands mentioned fold and I have zero showdown value, whereas 22 might actually be ahead and I have outs to what should be pretty nutty.
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  • beanehbeaneh
    edited December 2012
    In Response to Re: 10NL - Hand ranges when he shoves turn?:
    Yeah I know why you do it, it's a good/essential learning method cos I need to be able to figure these things out for myself. Yeah I mentioned I can get bigger PPs fold, and I suppose I can make him fold if he's crazy and has some crazy stuff like J3o, don't think any Ax or Qx is folding. Yeah I kinda knew it was a set, but just being a station/non-believer which is why I posted it, cos I don't think it' is just a standard cooler than I can just chalk down to bad luck and just be happy about the spot. Hmm, I wouldn't have thought he ever skips the c-bet with any Ax (including AA) so I'd probably bet the flop when I've peeled with KQ and QJ. I'd probably also bet all the hands I'd peel with that have completely missed like 89s, T9s etc. The difference for me with them kinda hands is that I can make all the hands mentioned fold and I have zero showdown value, whereas 22 might actually be ahead and I have outs to what should be pretty nutty.
    Posted by Lambert180

    even if 22 is ahead your equity is dirty, .ie you will struggle to ever actually realise it.

    id rather have 78s with a backdoor flush draw than an under pair and '2 outs'. hence I talk about betting the flop with 22. 

    trying to get you to think in terms of flop strategies and turn strats rather than this specific holding this time.
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited December 2012
    In Response to Re: 10NL - Hand ranges when he shoves turn?:
    In Response to Re: 10NL - Hand ranges when he shoves turn? : even if 22 is ahead your equity is dirty, .ie you will struggle to ever actually realise it. id rather have 78s with a backdoor flush draw than an under pair and '2 outs'. hence I talk about betting the flop with 22.  trying to get you to think in terms of flop strategies and turn strats rather than this specific holding this time.
    Posted by beaneh
    Ok cheers. All points have definitely been taken on board. Any ideas on where a good place to learn about flop/turn strats in cash as appose to more hand/situation specific advice /> Or you can just add me on FB ;)
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  • beanehbeaneh
    edited December 2012
    yeh gl with that
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited December 2012
    In Response to Re: 10NL - Hand ranges when he shoves turn?:
    yeh gl with that
    Posted by beaneh
    Lol sigh, worth a go! Not even sure which bit you're sarcastically wishing me GL with, you adding me on FB or there being flop/turn cash strats just on a plate for me somewhere
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  • BorinLonerBorinLoner
    edited December 2012
    In Response to Re: 10NL - Hand ranges when he shoves turn?:
    In Response to Re: 10NL - Hand ranges when he shoves turn? : Lol sigh, worth a go! Not even sure which bit you're sarcastically wishing me GL with, you adding me on FB or there being flop/turn cash strats just on a plate for me somewhere
    Posted by Lambert180
    Something wrong with thinking about it for yourself? lol
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  • beanehbeaneh
    edited December 2012
    the fb bit ldo.
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  • rancidrancid
    edited December 2012
    I really can't see a problem with the hand, over anaylisis I think by Beanah )
    you could rep flop, would be ok
    you could just call turn but you have set init, so many get it in with 1 pr hands it's an ez raise
    If you have notes that oppo is a nit then you may one day consider folding to the check/bet "hello I suddenly have a hand line, even though I had nothing pre - honest !!" )
    Very logical to think oppo would play AK/AQ exactly the same


    looks ok to me, when you hit your set you going to good here so much at this level
    Yeah ok so this time oppo got you beat, wouldn't lose any sleep over it
    You just have to get money in on the turn and bloat that pot
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