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Should I have folded?
First a bit of history:
Now after seeing that can anyone fold this:
| Player | Action | Cards | Amount | Pot | Balance |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| adougal10 | Small blind | 25.00 | 25.00 | 4058.00 | |
| avbwhu | Big blind | 50.00 | 75.00 | 3095.00 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| Shaki | Fold | ||||
| gemma25 | Fold | ||||
| beeftwo | Call | 50.00 | 125.00 | 2317.00 | |
| Wilhelm | Raise | 200.00 | 325.00 | 2765.00 | |
| adougal10 | Fold | ||||
| avbwhu | Fold | ||||
| beeftwo | Call | 150.00 | 475.00 | 2167.00 | |
| Flop | |||||
| |||||
| beeftwo | Check | ||||
| Wilhelm | Bet | 300.00 | 775.00 | 2465.00 | |
| beeftwo | Call | 300.00 | 1075.00 | 1867.00 | |
| Turn | |||||
| |||||
| beeftwo | Check | ||||
| Wilhelm | Bet | 500.00 | 1575.00 | 1965.00 | |
| beeftwo | Call | 500.00 | 2075.00 | 1367.00 | |
| River | |||||
| |||||
| beeftwo | All-in | 1367.00 | 3442.00 | 0.00 | |
| Wilhelm | Fold | ||||
| beeftwo | Show |
| |||
| beeftwo | Win | 3442.00 | 3442.00 | ||
| Player | Action | Cards | Amount | Pot | Balance |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| pavs | Small blind | 50.00 | 50.00 | 2535.00 | |
| Shaki | Big blind | 100.00 | 150.00 | 2660.00 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| gemma25 | Fold | ||||
| beeftwo | Call | 100.00 | 250.00 | 6337.00 | |
| Wilhelm | Raise | 400.00 | 650.00 | 2165.00 | |
| adougal10 | Fold | ||||
| pavs | Fold | ||||
| Shaki | Fold | ||||
| beeftwo | Call | 300.00 | 950.00 | 6037.00 | |
| Flop | |||||
| |||||
| beeftwo | Check | ||||
| Wilhelm | Check | ||||
| Turn | |||||
| |||||
| beeftwo | Check | ||||
| Wilhelm | Bet | 600.00 | 1550.00 | 1565.00 | |
| beeftwo | Call | 600.00 | 2150.00 | 5437.00 | |
| River | |||||
| |||||
| beeftwo | All-in | 5437.00 | 7587.00 | 0.00 | |
| Wilhelm | All-in | 1565.00 | 9152.00 | 0.00 | |
| beeftwo | Unmatched bet | 3872.00 | 5280.00 | 3872.00 | |
| beeftwo | Show |
| |||
| Wilhelm | Show |
| |||
| beeftwo | Win | Straight to the Jack | 5280.00 | 9152.00 | |
Comments
No, he played you perfectly and got paid the max.
Back to the OP question tho.
Firstly I would have bet out on the flop, given that you feel you had some sort of knowledge on his play, as it happens with the hand he was holding he probably would have called, but given that you know he plays less than premium hands, and especially draws, I wouldnt have thought you'd want to give him a free card on the turn.
The bet on the turn I can live with, and I can understand your logic in some respects to making the call on the river, altho has LF said, if you know the player that the player likes to chase poor drawing hands, and the board is one that is favourable to such hands, then its a hand that I could put down.
The obvious question is, did you make your assumptions on the basis of that one hand where he showed his bluff after going all in with his missed draw, or did you have other reads that gave you that perseption.
Whilst some players may show their bluffs to say "Look how clever I was", a lot show them to provide players with misinformation. You made teh assumption that because he did the same with a previous hand, he was doing the same thing again. Now I'm not sure how soon after the first hand you posted, the second one was played, but from my own personal point of view, I know that once I've made a similar play and shown a bluff like the villain did, then whilst I might not tighten my game up, I'm unlikely to make a similar move unless I hold the hand that I am representing, as I;m most likely to be called
In the cold light of day looking at the hands in solitude, it could be deemed to be a loose call pre flop by the villain. However what you have to also consider is not only how you portray other opponents, but also how you think you portray yourself to them. Maybe he has noticed that you make moves with raggy ace type hands and has seen you make similar plays to the first hand and knows that you can be bet off hands.
Now if that is how he plays all the time, then he wont be a profitable player in the long run, and thus you have to be happy going up against him, knowing that occasionally you will take a hit. However maybe he wasnt actually playing his cards, but was playing his opponent.
I have to agree that I'm not keen on his play, if he continues to make calls with drawing hands like that then I'd be more than happy to take my chances against him every time, however on the basis that I only have knowledge of one previous hand, and in isolation that tells me nothing about the player, then I could quite easily make the lay down on the all in river bet.
In summary he played the hand badly, but you also allowed yourself to become focussed on one previosu hand that the guy had played, and that in itself clouded your judgement, when it came to calling on the river.
If you come back and say that he had made the same play in 10 other hands the same night, and he was showing down any two cards, (not just drawing hands), then the river all could be more understandable, however if on those same ten hands, he has shown drawing hands, then you have to be aware that the board suits a drawing hand, and thus on this occasion you could be easily beaten, and thus any call I make in that situation would be a very reluctant one.
Aski
i have had to delete a few posts on this thread as they broke the community house rules (other posts that were not actually offensive have also been deleted as they quoted the posts in question)
please keep this community a welcoming place, for open, friendly debate and chat.
- whilhelm - please accept my apologies for the direction this thread took. i hope you continue to use the forums and posts your hands for analysis.
if anyone has any questions just send me a PM.
Think you've hit the nail on the head there. He had made a similar move with top pair top kicker, but I still thought my two pair was beating a lot of his range.
As for the abusive comments I've been away for a bit and haven't been checking this discussion so no offence has been taken, although no I am quite anxious to know how much I'm hated on this site...
EDIT : 300th post !!
ul