Flop 3 of a kind

sortofblue

Just had a bit of an interesting low stakes cash hand. All at least 100BB+ deep. Early 3BB raise and then call, I have 89s in cutoff and call, also called by button, blinds fold so 4 to the flop. Flop 884. Initial raiser bets about 2/3rds (which I think must be about 10BB), next player folds, I raise twice the bet (so put in another 10+20BB). Button folds. Other player min raise, I shove he calls. He has 44 for the full house I’m drawing my four outs. Question is this, am I too keen to get it in here? Was thinking he could not only have 44 or 8T+, but more likely to have (big) over pair? I am assuming that my hand is too strong to fold at the min raise stage (or any after the flop). Probably a reason to reraise pre perhaps. 

jugglegeek

In Response to Flop 3 of a kind:

Just had a bit of an interesting low stakes cash hand. All at least 100BB+ deep. Early 3BB raise and then call, I have 89s in cutoff and call, also called by button, blinds fold so 4 to the flop. Flop 884. Initial raiser bets about 2/3rds (which I think must be about 10BB), next player folds, I raise twice the bet (so put in another 10+20BB). Button folds. Other player min raise, I shove he calls. He has 44 for the full house I’m drawing my four outs. Question is this, am I too keen to get it in here? Was thinking he could not only have 44 or 8T+, but more likely to have (big) over pair? I am assuming that my hand is too strong to fold at the min raise stage (or any after the flop). Probably a reason to reraise pre perhaps. 
Posted by sortofblue

In many ways, this hand is a cooler. If you flop trips like that then you have to think you have the best hand. Don't play poker worrying about players flopping full houses all the time.

However. You have a very strong hand on a very dry flop. Once there has been a bet, a raise, and a re-raise your reliavtive hand strength reduces significantly. Chances are (unless the other player is bluffing that the 3-bettor has us beat. Think of it from the villians perpective. He makes a standard c-bet, gets raised, doesn't fold but re-raises, and then you 4-bet shove on the flop. No way can call your hand with one pair, so he has to have AT LEAST trips. If he has trips then for you to be winning he has to have open raised pre from early possition with 82,83,85,86,87. Would he really do that.

A better plan would have been to flat call. There is a chance that he has a big ace type hand or premium pair. If the turn is a paint card then raise the turn or, call the second barrel and raise the river.

Think about your relative hand strength rather than your absolute hand strength. You have represented such a strong hand here that it's almost impossible for the other player to continue without the nuts.

NOTB

got to agree with that.

The odds of drawing a full house are about 360:1, so you just can't worry yourself over it. It will happen. It did happen, but for it to happen when you had trips was just a bad beat and there's not much you can do about it.

BUT, for the betting though, you need to think of a few things:

1. what hand do you have - thats the easy one

2. what hand are you portraying to the rest of the table - based on how you are betting

3. what hand(s) are they portraying to you - based on their betting

4. what hand(s) do you think they have - based on their betting and your knowledge of their play

There are others like position, relative stack sizes etc, but ignoring them, the opposition was showing a big hand too. 

He started with a decent sized raise pre-flop.

He calls your re-raise - so unlikely to be bluffing

You go all in....

So, as i see it, you missed the message his betting was telling you. It was saying at each stage, "I have a big hand and I'm happy to cover anything you throw at me" and he did. 

Now, I think I lost against jugglegeek, or possibly someone else on the table, earlier tonight with a similar hand, so I have the same lesson to learn I think....  But hopefully, with a bit of post match analysis, we can both do better the next time. 

sortofblue

Thank you for the comments