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2 pair on a dryish board
this hand is in the mini BH. villain is a decent reg.
Did I play the flop correctly? the shove on the turn confuses me.......surely its not a set?? poss a better 2 pair...we both have massive stacks having doubled up early....is this a fold?
Did I play the flop correctly? the shove on the turn confuses me.......surely its not a set?? poss a better 2 pair...we both have massive stacks having doubled up early....is this a fold?
| bluesboyjo | Small blind | 15.00 | 15.00 | 1825.00 | |
| waller02 | Big blind | 30.00 | 45.00 | 4380.00 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| jgdog | Call | 30.00 | 75.00 | 1545.00 | |
| x | Call | 30.00 | 105.00 | 4175.00 | |
| PUCPOUND | Fold | ||||
| nagor | Fold | ||||
| bluesboyjo | Call | 15.00 | 120.00 | 1810.00 | |
| waller02 | Check | ||||
| Flop | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| |||||
| bluesboyjo | Check | ||||
| waller02 | Bet | 90.00 | 210.00 | 4290.00 | |
| jgdog | Fold | ||||
| x | Raise | 270.00 | 480.00 | 3905.00 | |
| bluesboyjo | Fold | ||||
| waller02 | Call | 180.00 | 660.00 | 4110.00 | |
| Turn | |||||
| |||||
| waller02 | Check | ||||
| x | All-in | 3905.00 | 4565.00 | 0.00 | |
| waller02 | ?? | ||||
Comments
I'm not sure how you're defining "decent reg". Maybe they post on the forum or something but this shove is not good play whatever his hand (unless he has a set and he's seen you call off shoves very light many times in the past).
I don't fold. I'm not massively surprised to see better two-pairs or sets against weaker players but I think more often it's some weird draw or top-pair. I think folding is fine if you think you have a big edge on the table, though.
It's not that I want to question Waller's view of this player but this shove looks much more like something a pretty bad player would do. I can't think how a decent player would rationalise it at all. I think the play in this hand, almost on it's own, defines the player as either not a decent player or one who's tilting/tipsy and not playing this hand well.
In light of that: The draws he can have are the flush draws he picks up on the turn having bluffed on the flop. Hence the description as "weird". I think it's just as likely to be a bluff with no hand at all.
I'm not sure that the bet-call on the flop, then check on the turn is ever likely to make someone think that their opponent is strong enough to call a massive overshove. It's unlikely anybody playing a nutted hand would think that a shove is likely to be called in the face of that action.
It comes down to the definition of the player as "decent" but I can literally only make the one defence of this play; in the case of Waller frequently calling overshoves light. If that's not the case, it's impossible to defend the play and almost defines him as not being very good or at least as not playing very well.
I think the bet-call on the flop should be pretty strong but I don't think that's what you see from most players and subsequently I don't think the OP's perceived flatting range would be that strong. I wouldn't be giving my opponent a really strong range here unless I knew they were a very strong player. (Not that I'm saying Waller isn't seen as very strong. I have no idea what his image is)
I question the assessment of the villain as being a "decent reg" mainly because of the hand. However I've played alot of forum regs and players with quite big winning records and I've found alot of them have massive leaks and just aren't as good as their reputations suggest. I think the big problem is what we define as "decent". It's such a subjective term. I've just seen too much poor play from regs regarded as "decent" before to take it at face value.
The bottom line for me is, in the absence of those prior instances of Waller calling shove fairly light, I don't think a bet that screams "Please fold!" is as likely to be strong as it is to be weak. It's usually exactly what it looks like. I think only that possible meta-game skews the balance the other way.
As I say, I don't hate folding if I think I have an edge on the table. I'd call and if I lose it's not a problem. I take a note, so I know what it means when this guy overshoves like this, and move on. Next time he'll be really easy for me to play against.
Maybe villain just got knocked out the main or something and is looking to bust? Thats not really congruent with limping preflop though.
as far as my description of the villain goes......he isn't a player I have played too much, I haven't scoped him either but I know he regularly runs or at least ran deep in main events so I assume he is no mug.
As I said, the shove just confused me, maybe all the more reason to fold?? but I called.
Didn't expect anyone to guess what hand he had but offshoot crushes every format so prob shouldn't be surprised that he nailed it!!
Yep, AA and he binked a 7 on the river to counterfeit me
Going with the majority I guess I should be folding without specific reads.
TY all