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13 Areas for Improvement in 2013 @ SkyPoker
In Response to 13 Areas for Improvement in 2013 @ SkyPoker:
..........Excellent thread, well thought out and written.......obv a lot of effort has gone into this and equally you get the replies in numbers that you so thoroughly deserve.
..........Excellent thread, well thought out and written.......obv a lot of effort has gone into this and equally you get the replies in numbers that you so thoroughly deserve.
Comments
1) MTT Payout Structure
I know this has recently been tweaked on Sky, but imo, it was decision taken in the wrong direction. With no ability to deal or chop the money up at the final table, the almost insanely top-heavy payouts make for one of the worst feelings when going deep in an MTT. It would make a little more sense if (like the current most popular poker site), 1st place is a decent chunk of the prizepool along with a high % of people getting paid. For reacreational players, this is why we love the game. The chance of a big money payday while spreading the rest of the prizepool as much as possible, to keep everyone happy and allow for the poker economy to flourish while attracting as big of a field as possible.
Paying out about 15% of the player pool was something that I thought Sky did right. A slightly higher min-cash with alot fewer people being paid isn't something many recreational players can get excited about. Not only is the new structure more top heavy, but the compensation of a new 10% ITM finish has been spread poorly between the bubble and the final table. Pay-jumps are too frequent, the difference between the final-table and the rest of the field is borderline insignificant, and the final table payouts are mental.
e.g. £250 BH w/approx 250-300ppts
1st - £58.82
2nd - £35.11
3rd - £20.94 <---- lolwtf is this jump all about?
4th - £16.47
5th - £14.02
6th - £11.74
-------------- <------ Virutally no significant change between 8th through 3rd.
7th - £9.48
8th - £7.23
2) Deals at Final Tables
Pretty sure this one is self explanatory, even if it was just allowed for the "bigger" events, and a moderator were to come and resolve it between the remaining players. Something that's almost crucial when prizepools are as top-heavy as they currently are imo.
3) Freerolls
I'm not sure whether it's just me, but there seems to be an inordinate amount of freerolls on Sky. And heck, who's gunna snub free money? Of late though, they seem to be somewhat lazy cop-outs of older better promotions that people really got stoked about. Take for instance the new Loyalty freerolls with £250 and £500 Guarantees. Player pools for these balloon well into treble figures, meaning that each one is worth less than £1 to each player that enters. The new monthly £5k freeroll, with a 1500 player pool means each ticket is only worth £3.33.
So why am I making a big deal out of free money Sky is so generously giving us? Because I believe there are promotions that would benefit themselves as well as us, more so than Freerolls. Seeing as they're quite literally giving something away for nothing, there doesn't seem to be much of an incentive to run so many freerolls. On the other hand, if they were to run a promotion similar to November's Points=Prizes promo, not only do they get a substantial amount of rake with people battling to put as much volume in as possible, but we see more tables running, and get free money to boot! It's a win-freakin'-win baby! Now I know what you're going to say, about how not everyone is a die-hard grinder and we need to appeal to the masses, not just those putting in alot of hands. 1) Freeroll ppts don't generate rake, the cash/STT/MTT players do. 2) Then run something similar to the Survivor tournaments that appealed to everyone, or mini-bonuses if they play in a millionth hand. Incentive people to play and pay rake, instead of putting it in freerolls that won't yield a great return for the site, or the players.
4) Good Promos vs Bad Promos
I've touched on this already, but I think it's pretty important to compare the two.
Early Bird+Happy Hour - GREAT Promos. Incentivises players to play, generates more rake, while giving them something in return. Despite giving away extra points, it's clearly profitable for the site seeing as HappyHour traffic at the cash tables BOOMS in those magical 1Hr periods.
PointsForPrizes (Novembers Promo) - EXCELLENT. Again, for exactly the same reason as before.
Mini+Main Jackpot - Needs tweaking. I'm not quite sure a £10k payout to anyone who binks both the main and the mini is going to draw enough people in to playing both, that the rake earned by the site, balances the times where they have to pay for someone taking it down. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a solid promotion, but maybe something similar to FTP's DailyDoubles, for example, if someone were to final table both, they'd win a small chunk of the money, and some of the rake goes straight back into the Jackpot.
Freerolls - Poor. See point 3.
5) New vs Old Tables
A new change that i'm finding rather hard to grasp. 10seater cash tables have been removed, for what seems to be no reason, only to be replaced with new CAP game tables. Not only that, but the number of tables you're allowed to open while sitting alone (or with one other person) is limited to only 1 per table type at that limit. Seeing as 10seaters as high as 200nl run on a regular weekly basis, with the CAP game tables hardly being played at whatsoever, i'm a little bemused as to this change.
6) High Stakes Action
Okay, so I wouldn't exactly call it 'High Stakes', but when 6max tables start to run at the highest limit a site has available (£10/£20 here on Sky), there's a problem. Pretty simple + easy solution, just add £25/£50 tables (that are already listed, but only for HU action) and put some down for 6max use.
7) Bumhunting
I dare anyone to go to the HU section of the cash game lobby, and not giggle a little at the sheer number of regs sitting there waiting for recreational players. It's just full of people who don't actually want to play poker. They want to make easy money. Not only is this daunting and a little offensing to the reactional players out there who just want a 1 on 1 game, but it's bad for the poker economy/player pool too.
There is a super amazing and simple solution to this, and that's to introduce the HU shuffle engine, into HU cash games. This would not only eliminate the problem of people waiting for the less experienced players, and sitting out every time a reg comes by, but it generates the site way more rake too! It forces regs to have to play against each other just like in a regular 6 or 10max game if they want to play hands against the lesser players, along with ensuring the site gets a healthy slice of the pie too.
8) Faulty Chat + Faulty/Small Note Taking + Small bugs around the site
A pretty self-explanatory one, referring to the somewhat dated software. It's often that when I switch from mini-view to standard-view, the chat box spazzes out, and all the text scrolls up and disappears, meaning I have to reset the chat display settings before the messages show up again. Likewise, not only is it fairly small, but there's another little bug in the note taking system, whereby it will only let you type at the very top of your note unless you use the d-pad to scroll your way through and manually enter the information where you want it. Also seems to be minor issues regarding Hand Histories, and recent table records in the My Account section of the site too.
Not a huge deal, but little bugs that could definitely do with fixing.
9) AutoPostBB + SitOutNextBB + Preferred Seat + Default Buy-in/Auto Top-up
Something the cash tables desperately need. Must take me at least 10minutes every single day just to check and uncheck all the boxes, change my seat to where I prefer it, and arrange them in a format I enjoy. (via JuggleGeek)
10) Resizable Tables + Solid Tiling/Stacking + Custom Avatars
Again, the title says it all really. Whenever you have too many tables to tile perfectly against each other, it puts them in a weird circular shape. Bluh, ugly. Also, seeing as there are only a very limited number of avatars to choose from at the moment, assuming they're also only jpeg files, why not allow custom avatars?
11) Run It Twice + Different Variants
RIT for Cash Games, oh dear lord yes. Would be incredibly $£XY.
The site probably isn't big enough to be adding many new games yet, but having the option there sure would please alot of people. Everything from Stud to Triple Draw. Heck, even Badugi to Chinese Poker (which I think could be pretty popular), could certainly be steps in the right direction once the site grows a little.
12) Timebank
An absolute must for anyone wanting to play more than a couple of tables, and if something that's done right, can only be a good thing for the players.
13) STT Love
Cash players have MC tables, and TOTP. Tournament players have the Primo and all the TV tournies. How about a monthly super high roller STT? Would be great for TV, could get a LOT of attention and have a tonne of sattellites running for them. Maybe a £5k 6max/10max sit+go perhaps, or something similar each month? I'm pretty sure that'd draw the crowds in more than a few monthly freerolls
Having said ALL of that, I want to make it clear that I still love Sky. They're suggested improvements, not critiques, and shouldn't be seen as anything more.
EDIT: Managed to squeeze a few more in after I missed a few obvious ones that arn't on the list. ty KickaStink + JuggleGeek!
14) Odd Bet Sizing + Hand Histories
Explanations ITT below.
Cheers,
Smitalos
Disagree on payout structures. The pirzes up top are what attracts players. Not really fussed about dealmaking. Just make sure you win!
They should really ditch that button beside the seat rotator thing. As far as i can tell all it does is arrange the tables in a way that no sane person would want to have them. I just insta quit and throw my keyboard across the room when it happens.
I would be on Sky every day if you could give us text hand histories, a timebank, and if you finally sorted out the dumb bet sizing thing. DO IT!
I can understand that Sky don't want to alienate their existing players, so you should add an option so that players like me, who are used to playing on the normal online poker sites, can tick a box to say they want non-additive bet sizing.
(I can think of at least one other poker site that bit the bullet and switched their bet sizing method to the 'standard' method, having used the weird additive method for a long time before, which supports my view that Sky needs to respect the standard.)
Just copy the payout tables from thebigone.com. Simple!
1) MTT Payout Structure
I agree it should be top heavy but some payouts structures I've seen (since the change) are just ridiculous. I was railing someone the other day in one of the UKOPS minis, it was a £5.75 BH and got 830 runners... 10th place was £20! Ok it's a BH so half the prize pool is gone and you'll get some from heads but even a good run might be 15 heads or so and 10th out of 830 for 4x the BI seems pretty ridic to me. Considering it was a £5 BI, you basically had to come top 3 out of 830 to get anything worthwhile. 1st place was not too far off double 2nd place aswell.
2) Deals at Final Tables
This isn't a deal breaker (pardon the pun) but wouldn't be that bad, obv only applies if both agree anyway so if you aint the type to wanna deal it has no impact on you anyway. And with the super steep jumps and often short stacked play I can see in some spots why you'd wanna deal.
3) Freerolls
Meh, freerolls
5) New vs Old Tables
Can't see the point in capped tables to be honest, but no harm in keeping 'em as long as they don't reduce regular table liquidity too much. 10seaters should be kept, but more people need to play them or they won't, so I guess they got rid cos not enough wanted them.
6) High Stakes Action
Obv not my stakes but meh if they're there and don't get played on, no harm done, if they do get played on, it's good innit.
7) Bumhunting
Obv needs fixing but don't really see a way you can force it, if they can't do it here, they'll do it elsewhere prob.
8) Faulty Chat + Faulty Note Taking + Small bugs around the site
Not too bothered about chat, notes is a right pain in the ....
9) AutoPostBB + SitOutNextBB + Preferred Seat + Custom Avatars
All nice to haves but won't lose sleep over them.
10) Resizable Tables + Solid Tiling/Stacking
Again nice to have but more than do-able on your own. I can't understand this desperate need for resizable ones tbh, I play on other sites with them and would never make them smaller than mini-view. Mini view does the job fine and obv you can auto load in mini for ease.
11) Run It Twice
Meh again, nice to have I suppose but not important and again only gona happen when both agree so if you don't like the idea it doesn't affect you anyway.
12) Different Variants
Not enough players on the site but if you're gonna add one, 7card stud deffo imo.
13) STT Love
STT players deffo need something, I've suggested a bunch of things, a similar happy hour like cash where you get 50% extra points, win 5 x 6max SnGs in a row (of the same level) and win 5x your BI (or similar), won't happen in 6max SnGs that often and the payout will be far less than the rake made by the games actually running (6max regular SnGs never run on Sky). Lots of other ideas but won't go on. A one-off big TV SnG aint a bad idea either... 5k might be a bit steep mind.
Obv get antes too!
P.S. Stop the forum timing us out, I had to write this in word for fear of being timed out
Paul
Think they are fine as they are. Wouldn't mind if Sky tweaked them somewhat but I still think that top heavy prizepools FTW
2) Deals at Final Tables
The prizepools aren't big enough to justify this at this moment in time IMO. If we got to a stage at Sky Poker where the difference between 1st and 6th was 50k+ then I think then it should be looked at.
3) Freerolls
Freerolls have a purpose and think that Sky have a nice mix at the moment. I would personally like to see some 'experience' freerolls on offer that gave seats to some top sporting events, which I'm certain that Sky Poker has access to as being part of BSkyB.
4) Good Promos vs Bad Promos
I feel that the best promos for the site are ones that include all bankrolls and thats why the Kings of Cash promo worked so well. Would love to see more promos for SnG/MTT players too.
5) New vs Old Tables
I would like to see the 10 seater format return but understand that Sky had their reasons with 99.99pc of their ring game action being 6 max.
6) High Stakes Action
What beaneh said basically. There was 25/50 in the lobby and Sky removed them as they didn't get any action in years. IIRC a number of other poker sites, have removed all stakes higher than 5/10 as they just don't run. If 10/20 was running 2/3 times a week then I'm sure that Sky would look at putting some bigger games on as the liquidity would be there.
7) Bumhunting
The HU lobby is a bit embarrasing at the moment. I do not play HU (only to START 6max games) and think that Sky should look at ways to make it more appealing
8) Faulty Chat + Faulty/Small Note Taking + Small bugs around the site
The software is being given a total overhaul that will hopefully mean that these small bugs will be a thing of the past.
9) AutoPostBB + SitOutNextBB + Preferred Seat + Default Buy-in/Auto Top-up
Would certainly encourage all of these to be added to the software, as would any cash grinder.
10) Resizable Tables + Solid Tiling/Stacking + Custom Avatars
I am more than happy with mini view but do find the stacking/tiling a bit annoying. Customer avatars would be probably more trouble than its worth as there are always some people trying to get rude/offensive things online.
11) Run It Twice + Different Variants
Run it twice could be fun. Different variants is total dreamland.
12) Timebank
Would be nice to have.
13) STT Love
1) MTT Payout Structure
While the structure needs tweaking I really like the 10% paid and a top heavy table. You mention the other popular site, I think they pay out far too wide personally. You make a good point about recreational players getting pay outs and to keep circulating the poker economy. However on this site they have addressed this by the vast amount of Bounty Hunter MTTs. Love them or loathe them (there are plenty of people in both of those sections) they allow the recreational play to make a profit or get some sort of return on a regular basis. If you stretch out the payout structure then you have to eliminate a good portion of these from the schedule IMO. Half the prize pool is already taken away, you need the top heavy payout table to have the numbers up top to attract a good portion of people to play IMO.
2) Deals at Final Tables
I can take or leave this. If they were introduced then they would have to be automated (I think one of the smaller big sites either has or had this, haven't played there for a bit). I really don't fancy handing this over to a non-poker CS rep so if it was by a poker moderator then I hope they were dedicated to this role.
3) Freerolls
It seems to be pretty split if there are too many or too few freerolls here, seen arguments both ways. I agree with you that freerolls for grinding is a good idea. I'd like to see the leaderboard back for MTT and SnG players. MTTs are hugely popular and if you have a run on a leaderboard then you are more likely to play more. SnGs provide a big chunk of rake and to encourage the SnG grinder a monthly leaderboard (be it BoP or something else) with a decent freeroll or prize at the end of it would be great, might inject some life into the playerpool as well which seems, IMO, to be waning for the £55ers+
4) Good Promos vs Bad Promos
I really like EB and Happy Hours. Then again I usually start tables and always continue 3/2 handed when tables are breaking so I would say that. I like the Jackpot one as well, the only tweak it's do would be to make the consolation prize available for anyone who wins the mini and FTs the Main as well. The JP is a grower of a promotion and the longer it goes unclaimed, the more attention it will get. Sky promote it on TV, Social Media and emails massively (rightly so, it's a hook for potential new players/lapsed accounts).
I think they have to be careful of over doing pure rake races. Every promo lately seems to be a rake race. The occasional one (such as the treasure chest one last Jan) are great for turning rake over. The games do become Reg infested though, it's a tricky balance. I'd like to see the new TSP set up and new leaderboard promos very soon (but not until they are ready).
I've been called a Sky fanboy before and I obviously love the site and community. However if I had one criticism it would be that osme ideas are not seen all the way through or forgotten about. TSP was a great idea, but it wasn't pushed enough after the first quarter or so. The UK Cash game is great, we were told about all the plans for new ones yet they haven't happened. Showing games on a 5 min delay at times other than the live shows was trialled, bigged up and stopped. SkyPoker are all about new ideas, it's one of the reasons I love playing here. It just seems sometimes instead of seeing one idea all of the way through it's on to the next new thing.
5) New vs Old Tables
Pretty much agree here. Personally I don't like Cap tables. As Beaneh said earlier they might need to be given a chance and if PLO was pushed then I can see their use. I don't like ot play FR but there's obviously a market for it and it would be nice to see them available. I'd go 9 handed rather than 10 though.
6) High Stakes Action
Run before walk IMO. If £10/£20 regularly ran, there'd be higher soon enough. If regs at £10/£20 requested higher, I think we'd see it.
7) Bumhunting
The oldest problem in online poker IMO. There have been a ton of threads already on this subject so I don't really want to go into it here otherwise it derails everything else you've written. My stand point - I don't do it, I can understand why people do it, I think it hurts the game and poker economy, if there was a solution I'd like to see it.
8) Faulty Chat + Faulty/Small Note Taking + Small bugs around the site
Completely agree with what you have put under this one. The note facility for me needs urgent attention.
9) AutoPostBB + SitOutNextBB + Preferred Seat + Default Buy-in/Auto Top-up
I'd like to see preferences when you sit at a table (check APBB/Wait etc). The little bug that cancels a hand when a new player is on the button isn't a big deal but it's a personal annoyance of mine. Don't think preferred seat is a biggy but auto top up is something I can see people would like. I wouldn't use it myself (I'm very root canal about recording every penny on my spreadsheet. Yes I know I could check my account before standing but I like doing it my way, my own neurosis).
10) Resizable Tables + Solid Tiling/Stacking + Custom Avatars
Resizable tables would be nice but I don't think they'd be the boon everyone thinks they'll be. Tiling sorting out I agree with. I don't think custom avatars will happen here but I'd certainly like to see more, including an avatar for each of the teams on SkyPoker
11) Run It Twice + Different Variants
Run it twice isn't needed IMO, then again I never have it enabled on the other site. As far as variants goes it's a site designed for recs more than regs, most recs like to play hold em. If PLO and PLO8 got properly established then yes I would push for more games such as the studs of this world. I'd like to play here long enough to play Badugi here (love that game).
12) Timebank
I've addressed this one before. I'd like to see it for cash only but that would be hugely unfair on the tournament players here and put fuel on the fire of those who believe SkyPoker gears all of their promos/changes around cash players. I really dislike the timebank, I think people over use it and that other popular site has a real problem with. Late on in a MTT some of the TBs are so huge I've lost levels waiting for people to get back from the toilet. If one was brought it it needs a ceiling amount of time in it, with the +x secs not going higher than a certain point. Plus you've got to click it to activate it, not just have it roll out when you're AFK. If something workable is put together which doesn't hurt the enjoyment of the games here for the recs by slowing they down too much then I'd be all for it.
13) STT Love
Agree with everything you've put.
14) Odd Bet Sizing + Hand Histories
Yes needs looking at. The bet buttons in the blinds need to be sorted. Would be nice to make them custom as well but there are more important things to put in first.
Again Smity, great thread Sir.