did position allow me to check

craigcu12

what i was thinking was any big bet would probably result in a fold unless he held a card of the same suit, if i decided to make a small bet then that i thought would be just checking really.

ley60	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£1.36
NJ2	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£1.12
	Your hole cards	K K
LB438	Fold
craigcu12	Raise		£0.20	£0.26	£6.76
shakinaces	Fold
bmh1946	Fold
joeley60	Call		£0.18	£0.44	£1.18
NJ2	Fold
Flop
		2 K 5
joeley60	Check
craigcu12	Check
Turn
		7
joeley60	Bet		£0.04	£0.48	£1.14
craigcu12	Call		£0.04	£0.52	£6.72

if on the other hand i was OOP would a check still be the right hing to do?

percival09

no why would you check? just bet gii

no to your other question

Lambert180

No

and OOP it would be correct to check if he had raised pre and you'd just called, then you can check to the raiser but you should never be flatting a raise with KK (not at 4NL anyway), so you'd be 3betting OOP, he'd flat, and then cos you're the preflop aggressor you should bet this flop.

4NL = NEVER try to 'trap' people, when you've got it just bet!

You've raised pre and need to c-bet...

1) What do you do if another spade comes, just hope you make a FH or fold? Even if he doesn't have the flush himself he aint gonna loads of money into a pot when there are 4 spades out with worse, so it kills your action.

2) Would you c-bet with KQ, AQ, loads of spade flush draws like AsX?

3) Betting gets value from everyone who has a decent spade, quite a few PPs, any Kx (quite unlikely when you've got 2 but still happens).

You've flopped the world on a dengerous board and are giving yourself virtually zero chance of getting stacks in the middle by checking the flop. The only caveat to this is that he's very much a short stack, but you still need to get the money in now while yuo're most likely to be ahead and opponents will be most willing to put theirs in too.

bearlyther

Yea bet the flop

craigcu12

In Response to Re: did position allow me to check:

No and OOP it would be correct to check if he had raised pre and you'd just called, then you can check to the raiser but you should never be flatting a raise with KK (not at 4NL anyway), so you'd be 3betting OOP, he'd flat, and then cos you're the preflop aggressor you should bet this flop. 4NL = NEVER try to 'trap' people, when you've got it just bet! You've raised pre and need to c-bet... 1) What do you do if another spade comes, just hope you make a FH or fold? Even if he doesn't have the flush himself he aint gonna loads of money into a pot when there are 4 spades out with worse, so it kills your action. 2) Would you c-bet with KQ, AQ, loads of spade flush draws like AsX? 3) Betting gets value from everyone who has a decent spade, quite a few PPs, any Kx (quite unlikely when you've got 2 but still happens). You've flopped the world on a dengerous board and are giving yourself virtually zero chance of getting stacks in the middle by checking the flop. The only caveat to this is that he's very much a short stack, but you still need to get the money in now while yuo're most likely to be ahead and opponents will be most willing to put theirs in too.
Posted by Lambert180

does this maybe have something to do with slow play being common on these tables villians bets seem very weak until they hit their big hand then either shove or check shove.
the reason i say this is unless he's a maniac the villian very rarely is much betting until the river card then it's either check shove or jumping frop micro bets pre, flop and turn into massive bets on river
today a villian had KK i raised 12p on the button with QJs he called i have seen a lot of villian just called so when i got second highest pair i decide to cointunue betting 12p

rancid

bet - you have a set

plus a scare card will stop the action

if oppo has a spade you have action on the flop, if oppo has a hand you have action

if oppo flopped the world, you have outs

if you bet and scare card comes, easy to get away from

more reason to bet than to check

Moonlit81

does this maybe have something to do with slow play being common on these tables villians bets seem very weak until they hit their big hand then either shove or check shove.

Players correctly slow playing hands seldom happens at these levels, its more likley that they have a decent hand and have no idea how to extract value from it or have a weak one pair hand or draw and are looking to see a cheap card or showdown.
At these levels you cant go far wrong with the "big hand, big bet" philsophy, In this case you will get called by so many Kx hands, big Pocket pairs, other sets, and any decent spade, Bet flop some where in region of 30-35p and put him all in on turn.