is this a shove??

waller02

DTD 1....both players had been very active although this is the first 3 bet I had seen for a while.

Is this an easy shove?? Any argument for any other action? 

a	Small blind		300.00	300.00	18732.50
waller02	Big blind		600.00	900.00	11450.00
	Your hole cards	K A
Serge77	Fold
cenachav	Fold
mould03	Fold
b	Raise		1200.00	2100.00	14755.00
a	Raise		2100.00	4200.00	16632.50
waller02	?

beaneh

In Response to is this a shove??:

DTD 1....both players had been very active although this is the first 3 bet I had seen for a while. Is this an easy shove?? Any argument for any other action?  a  Small blind   300.00 300.00 18732.50 waller02 Big blind   600.00 900.00 11450.00   Your hole cards K A       Serge77 Fold         cenachav Fold         mould03 Fold         b  Raise   1200.00 2100.00 14755.00 a  Raise   2100.00 4200.00 16632.50 waller02 ? 
Posted by waller02

if it was a minraise and to you an argument could be made to 3bet to a non all in size, as it is with the small 3bet already infront of you it's brilliant as long as we didn't instantly think ewww he has just KK+ as we have AK which has good equity even against a 3bet call range that isn't joke tight, and there is now alot more money in the pot for us to win uncontested which is obviously the best thing to happen for us. we shove and they both fold. GL.

waller02

Yeah I did shove, I guess with 20bb it's the only option...I obv lost a race (10's) but after seeing a Q and J on the flop I couldn't help but wonder if the hand could have played out differently if I just called (flawed thinking I'm sure). But I guess the vllain would have commited himself with a c-bet anyway as well as the fact that the original raiser would have felt obliged to come along for the ride too???

What if I had a 30bb stack though (if you don't mind me asking). It's a common situation for me? Would that also be a shove?

beaneh

In Response to Re: is this a shove??:

Yeah I did shove, I guess with 20bb it's the only option...I obv lost a race (10's) but after seeing a Q and J on the flop I couldn't help but wonder if the hand could have played out differently if I just called (flawed thinking I'm sure). But I guess the vllain would have commited himself with a c-bet anyway as well as the fact that the original raiser would have felt obliged to come along for the ride too??? What if I had a 30bb stack though (if you don't mind me asking). It's a common situation for me? Would that also be a shove?
Posted by waller02

Couldn't help but wonder, peel and fold if we miss on the first 3 cards or peel and stack off on QJx but not other misses? 

from 30 bbs you can consider 4betting to a number as opposed to ai. once you consider 4betting you can now either be peeled by someone OR get 5bet ai and have to know how you will continue. All that should be considered and planned for before you click any of the buttons.

waller02

In Response to Re: is this a shove??:

In Response to Re: is this a shove?? : Couldn't help but wonder, peel and fold if we miss on the first 3 cards or peel and stack off on QJx but not other misses?  from 30 bbs you can consider 4betting to a number as opposed to ai. once you consider 4betting you can now either be peeled by someone OR get 5bet ai and have to know how you will continue. All that should be considered and planned for before you click any of the buttons.
Posted by beaneh

Well if the villain checks to the 2 overcards I would have shoved....but I know it's poor thinking, shove pre everyday.

As for the 30bb stack....I guess there are numerous ways of playing it depending on the oppo and position, I just always seem to pick the wrong option!

Cheers anyway

bearlyther

Think you have to get it in here waller its an awkward spot tho.

Slykllist

I think I prefer the nit bag line here out of BB, peel with a view to getting it in when we connect with the flop and folding when we don't.

But it is such a tough spot because of your stack size, at least with the Jam, you're guaranteed to see all 5 cards and maximising your chances of getting there.