Tough spot in Primo, what next?

Slykllist

ship it hes not getting the pot odds on the flop and the implied odds aint to good either 

Slykllist

Pretty early in last night's Primo, no previous experience vs this oppo but up to this point the table had played pretty standard with nobody getting out of line and no reason to believe he's going to get too creative.

Would appreciate any comments on my line throughout the hand, particularly my bet sizing when I donk lead the flop, and obviously what do we do when he raises the turn?

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Slykllist	Small blind		20.00	20.00	2510.00
britrock	Big blind		40.00	60.00	3238.50
	Your hole cards	Q Q
BadBoyBret	Raise		80.00	140.00	2660.00
mullberry	Fold
TONY509	Fold
geoff28	Fold
Slykllist	Raise		200.00	340.00	2310.00
britrock	Fold
BadBoyBret	Call		140.00	480.00	2520.00
Flop
		3 Q J
Slykllist	Bet		280.00	760.00	2030.00
BadBoyBret	Call		280.00	1040.00	2240.00
Turn
		5
Slykllist	Bet		520.00	1560.00	1510.00
BadBoyBret	Raise		1140.00	2700.00	1100.00

beaneh

if we're always behind can we call to fill up?

if we're not always behind do we rather get it in now on the turn or call and call ai on any river or fold some rivers?

Slykllist

In Response to Re: Tough spot in Primo, what next?:

if we're always behind can we call to fill up? if we're not always behind do we rather get it in now on the turn or call and call ai on any river or fold some rivers?
Posted by beaneh

I'm asking the questions, you answer them

beaneh

In Response to Re: Tough spot in Primo, what next?:

In Response to Re: Tough spot in Primo, what next? : I'm asking the questions, you answer them
Posted by Slykllist

why should I bother posting at all?

when other people refuse to add anything of value then moan when I point this out and try and get me banned?

I provide more actual high level content than anyone imo.

Specifically I do it without the usual ineptitude of raise Ace Jack off dont go all in with AQo..... I'm asking questions because the answers to them provide you with your most important factors that should affect the decision you are asking about.

It's especially hard to give a specific answer as often times it will depend on the player, you can show me the same line and against some players I would say bet call this turn and fold if  you don't fill up, against others i'll say lols 3bet the turn for value and against others i'll say call turn call any river let them bluff.

if each thread starter actually answered the questions I set them they'd learn alot from their post, rather than expecting to be told 'THE ANSWER'. 

anyway move along nothing to see here.

Slykllist

BTW..... I was joking hence the

But if you want to go off on one, knock yourself out, I'll remember to remove my personality before posting next time!

Anyway, in answer to your questions:

if we're always behind can we call to fill up?

NO, but we're not always behind here.  AJ, AQ, AK(one diamond) JJ and even 33 are all posibilities and were factored into my decision making.

If we're not always behind do we rather get it in now on the turn or call and call ai on any river or fold some rivers?

I think the pot size dictates that calling the raise on the turn is not an option, I can't ever call fold leaving myself just short of 1000 chips when there's 3200 in the middle.

beaneh

there will be players especially on sky who will just have us behind here, against which we need to work out if peeling assuming they never fold is breakeven or better.

if not and if he can ever have non flush hands then it's the easiest turn stack off lets not see another diamond roll off and potentially lose us the pot.  

if they just bet when checked to alot them maybe call call is a better play regardless of the runout.

Unknown

I check my 'nit list' on the post-it notes stuck to my monitor, if his name isn't on them, I wager the remainder of my chips and raise my clenched hand up and down in the air

unknown_username

Hi Sly

As its UTG who has raised then, as you say, you may still be ahead. Even if behind post turn you still have 10 outs so 20% equity and after your 500+ bet his min raise means you have the odds to cal and catch your Fh or quadsl. Why not just call and see River. Personally why not rer all-in on Turn now though he should be calling. :-)
PS I don't see anything wrong with your bet sizing as you would consider doing the same with other hands.

Slykllist

In Response to Re: Tough spot in Primo, what next?:

Hi Sly As its UTG who has raised then, as you say, you may still be ahead. Even if behind post turn you still have 10 outs so 20% equity and after your 500+ bet his min raise means you have the odds to cal and catch your Fh or quadsl. Why not just call and see River. Personally why not rer all-in on Turn now though he should be calling. :-) PS I don't see anything wrong with your bet sizing as you would consider doing the same with other hands.
Posted by profman15

See above Steve, in response to beneh's post:

I think the pot size dictates that calling the raise on the turn is not an option, I can't ever call fold leaving myself just short of 1000 chips when there's 3200 in the middle.

unknown_username

In Response to Re: Tough spot in Primo, what next?:

In Response to Re: Tough spot in Primo, what next? : See above Steve, in response to beneh's post: I think the pot size dictates that calling the raise on the turn is not an option, I can't ever call fold leaving myself just short of 1000 chips when there's 3200 in the middle.
Posted by Slykllist

 Hi SLy
Just with 25 bb's left and if a diamond fell on river say that didn't complete your FH and he ai'd would you still call or look to find a spot for your 1000 chips in another hand? Just asking as i'm unsure myself....

Slykllist

In Response to Re: Tough spot in Primo, what next?:

In Response to Re: Tough spot in Primo, what next? :  Hi SLy Just with 25 bb's left and if a diamond fell on river say that didn't complete your FH and he ai'd would you still call or look to find a spot for your 1000 chips in another hand? Just asking as i'm unsure myself....
Posted by profman15

In all honesty I would never get myself into that spot as it would be a mistake given stack sizes / pot size, because of that the turn has to be shove or fold.

Slykllist

Thanks all for you comments on this, always appreciated.

To cap off the thread, I did jam it all in and he flipped A 4diamonds for the nut flush and the board refused to pair for me on the river, c'est la vie.

IDONKCALLU

all in

unknown_username

In Response to Re: Tough spot in Primo, what next?:

In Response to Re: Tough spot in Primo, what next? : In all honesty I would never get myself into that spot as it would be a mistake given stack sizes / pot size, because of that the turn has to be shove or fold.
Posted by Slykllist

 cheers m8...i understand.

bearlyther

Yea you have to get it in.  Would be a mistake to not go broke here imo.

rusty762

In Response to Tough spot in Primo, what next?:

Pretty early in last night's Primo, no previous experience vs this oppo but up to this point the table had played pretty standard with nobody getting out of line and no reason to believe he's going to get too creative. Would appreciate any comments on my line throughout the hand, particularly my bet sizing when I donk lead the flop, and obviously what do we do when he raises the turn? Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance Slykllist Small blind   20.00 20.00 2510.00 britrock Big blind   40.00 60.00 3238.50   Your hole cards Q Q       BadBoyBret Raise   80.00 140.00 2660.00 mullberry Fold         TONY509 Fold         geoff28 Fold         Slykllist Raise   200.00 340.00 2310.00 britrock Fold         BadBoyBret Call   140.00 480.00 2520.00 Flop     3 Q J       Slykllist Bet   280.00 760.00 2030.00 BadBoyBret Call   280.00 1040.00 2240.00 Turn     5       Slykllist Bet   520.00 1560.00 1510.00 BadBoyBret Raise   1140.00 2700.00 1100.00
Posted by Slykllist

One thing I noticed from all the posters , or lack of, is any consideration to what the villain may think of your very strong action from the sb pf.
I wished I had not seen the result of this hand before posting this Simon, but I would have put you on a strong pp/ak worst, so there is every possibility post flop villain(if he is half decent player) could have u on set QQ/JJ.  I can only guess your weak lead was designed to induce action/keep him in with weak holding into what is a very wet flop indeed. Dangerous.
I think because of the flop texture ,a much stronger bet designed to either give the villain incorrect pot odds to call, or intice the shove would be my line here.
And, if he shoves and you lose, at least you know your play was +ev

rancid

yukky spot

hero fold )