Should I have shoved the river?

step7

Am i missing value here as I've put villain on a king? Do I just shove here all day long at this level?

Am i ever bet folding? It did cross my mind as i set the bet up. Villian shouldn't be holding K4, K8 but anything is possible at NL4!

Hand History #611166847 (06:32 18/01/2013)

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
step7	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£8.35
remot	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£2.19
DTWBANDIT	Sit out
	Your hole cards	Q A
moony787	Fold
Kyle322	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£3.17
parkhead	Fold
step7	Raise		£0.14	£0.24	£8.21
remot	Call		£0.12	£0.36	£2.07
Kyle322	Call		£0.12	£0.48	£3.05
Flop
		8 K K
step7	Bet		£0.20	£0.68	£8.01
remot	Call		£0.20	£0.88	£1.87
Kyle322	Call		£0.20	£1.08	£2.85
Turn
		4
step7	Check
remot	Check
Kyle322	Bet		£0.08	£1.16	£2.77
step7	Call		£0.08	£1.24	£7.93
remot	Call		£0.08	£1.32	£1.79
River
		5
step7	Bet		£0.99	£2.31	£6.94
remot	Fold
Kyle322	Call		£0.99	£3.30	£1.78
step7	Show	Q A
Kyle322	Muck	J 8
step7	Win	Flush to the Ace	£3.05		£9.99

rancid

yes shove

JackoG9

Raise more pre, shove river - you're probably going to get called by a king at NL4 anyway.

step7

Why do you say raise more pre Jacko? Because I'm playing out of the blinds, because I have power hand or just generally just raise more at NL4? I should have thought more about villains range and included a weaker flush draw, with his so-so bet on the turn being the tip off, at the time I thought it was a noob trap with the K. On reflection a shove was the way to go, any air or minor pair including the 8 folding to any sizeable bet (but never say never at NL4), everything else stacking off 99% of the time.

rancid

Step how do you wanna play at nl4, what range you using - ie. if you wanna play small ball, open 3x IP
If you just wanna go value hands then 4x min ip & oop

if you wanna do both, then do both no one will notice
If they do notice they won't exploit you

if you playing pretty ABC then just open 4x as minimum +1 bb per limper

doesn't really matter how you play at nl4 because they all rubbish barring a few players that actually know what a set is

nl4 players think in pennies, so if you say give me 16p - they will
if they hit flop and you say give me 40p, they will..and so on

wouldn't bother changing you raises sizes if you oop or ip, just go big )
if your on a table and they all folding then change tables untill they start calling )

Still amazes me how easy people stack off at nl4, wouldn't worry about a house when holding a high flush unless it's v a reg at that level


gl

JackoG9

Rancid's explained it there but, yes, you need to bet more with your value hands at NL4 because players don't like to fold - it still never ceases to amaze me how much players at micro stakes are willing to call after limping in!

That's why you should rarely bluff at these level, because players are reluctant to even fold second pair, for example.

When I played NL4, my standard pre flop raise was 20p. It seems a lot, but players call it. And I would bet more depending on how many players have limped, otherwise, you're just enticing players into the pot. I would also bet more to compensate for being out of position but, as Rancid says, just bet more at NL4!

In this hand, you have to go for max value with the nut flush, even on a paired board, because so many weaker hands are likely to have made it to the river. If you run into a full house, it's just unlucky, but over time you'll make loads by shoving it all in here.