what is the best defence against a 4p bet

craigcu12

nothing is confusing me more at the minute in poker than these 4p bets i just don't understand why they are done
here i have two good examples of why they so confusing

in this first example the villian is min raising with KK so i'm thinking to myself he has rubbish then he does a 4p bet which is understandable now but at the time was weird and so i hit two pair and am thinking to myself i have a good hand here so call the shove and get the shock of my life when he reveals KK. it's as though he want to set mine KK?

craigcu12	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£3.71
ted1917	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£15.92
	Your hole cards	8 A
TOD19	Fold
lee1965	Fold
v	Raise		£0.08	£0.14	£3.42
clubhammer	Fold
craigcu12	Call		£0.06	£0.20	£3.65
ted1917	Call		£0.04	£0.24	£15.88
Flop
		7 8 K
craigcu12	Check
x	Check
v	Bet		£0.04	£0.28	£3.38
craigcu12	Call		£0.04	£0.32	£3.61
x	Fold
Turn
		A
craigcu12	Check
v	Bet		£0.16	£0.48	£3.22
craigcu12	Raise		£0.80	£1.28	£2.81
v	Raise		£2.56	£3.84	£0.66
craigcu12	All-in		£2.81	£6.65	£0.00
v	All-in		£0.66	£7.31	£0.00
craigcu12	Unmatched bet		£0.23	£7.08	£0.23
craigcu12	Show	8 A
v	Show	K K

this hand here is where the other side of the coin is because with this hand  i raise his flop with two pair he calls then i raise his turn so he folds so i'm thinking to myself why the hell are you betting if you just going to fold

x	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£3.66
craigcu12	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£4.57
	Your hole cards	3 6
TINTIN	Fold
DrummerDan	Fold
Lonsy	Fold
Shufflin11	Fold
x	Call		£0.02	£0.08	£3.64
craigcu12	Check
Flop
		10 3 6
x	Bet		£0.04	£0.12	£3.60
craigcu12	Raise		£0.12	£0.24	£4.45
x	Call		£0.08	£0.32	£3.52
Turn
		9
x	Bet		£0.04	£0.36	£3.48
craigcu12	Raise		£0.34	£0.70	£4.11
x	Fold
craigcu12	Muck
craigcu12	Win		£0.37		£4.48
craigcu12	Return		£0.30	£0.03	£4.78

should start to just call and fold them unless i hit sets and better

cenachav

Personally I treat a 4p bet as a check.  I just ignore them and either bet if I was going to bet or call the 4p bet if I was going to check

benc

To be honest craig from my own experience minbets into big pots can be anything ranging from absolutely nothing to the nuts. I'm aware that answer doesn't help all i would say is just play the hand as you would anyway and try not to get sucked into doing anything stupid, the hands above look fine to me just unlucky to run into the set and good to protect your two pair with a good bet, doesnt matter if they fold as long as you make the right play.  Also if you have a marginal hand you get to keep the pot small by just calling these small bets, if you have big hands obviously can just raise it up as you would anyway and if you have absolutely nothing just fold and treat it as a normal bet. I have had problems in the past with being sucked in by minbets and making stupid plays with hands i shudn't just because my ego tells me not to fold to a minbet lol .

DOHHHHHHH

epic thread title craig

+1 to cenachav. don't overthink the situation just raise for value or call the cheap bet and see another card for almost nothing. 

NColley

In general I tend to raise every min bet readless. The min bet is usually a sign of weakness or wanting to see the next card for cheap. So raise and put the pressure on!

The times I won't is if I have virtually no equity and villain won't fold at all (they callin' you down with bottom pair), or I know villain only minbet/jams at which point you can just raise hands you want to play for stacks with and call and see what happens with draws/whatever.

jugglegeek

The best defence against 4p minbets is note taking. Some players will mindonk randomly, some will mindonk the effective nuts, some will mindonk draws to set cheep odds, some will min donk simply because they don't know how to raise to any other amount.

Make it your mission over the next four weeks to make a note on a player every time they minbet. Note the flop they minbet, how they respond if you raise, and if possible what hand they acutally had.

For the first hand you should now have the following note for "V" - 'minbet = the nuts Kd8h7h'. and for the second 'SB vs BB limp pre; min bet-call flop T63r, minbet-fold 9 turn'.

Makes it easy for next time. With these notes you can flat call to showdown against V and two-barrel most hands vs X with decent fold equity.

These minbettors actually make it easy for us really because they allow us to control the size of the pot. For example, the first hand is a bit of a cooler. But with reads that the villian only does this with strong value hands, we can flat the turn and river with our non-nut two pair and lose around 50p

JAM888

2nd ncolley + note

Ive come accross this quite a lot, i would mostly put in a decent bet on the flop then, go from there, also would dump a8 pre, bit raggy gl

grantorino

+1 cenachav until some reads

Dont flat rag As oop till you have good reads

1281

just proves everyone approaches the game differently,,,,, i personally x4 bet kk & aa on 2/4 boards now to stop players "having a look"

the same players who min raise premium hands never seem to get caught though, it's very annoying

always trying to preach what's said on 861 but it just seems to bit you

check out my bad beat story in the clinic called "another awful story"

1281

In Response to Re: what is the best defence against a 4p bet:

just proves everyone approaches the game differently,,,,, i personally x4 bet kk & aa on 2/4 boards now to stop players "having a look" the same players who min raise premium hands never seem to get caught though, it's very annoying always trying to preach what's said on 861 but it just seems to bit you check out my bad beat story in the clinic called "another awful story"
Posted by 1281

bite you*