typical another fish wins again and this time i did raise mega

craigcu12

luckyjimbo	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£3.90
craigcu12	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£5.56
	Your hole cards	A A
zacharis10	Fold
wexy	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£2.93
luckydad	Call		£0.04	£0.14	£1.91
Countess13	Call		£0.04	£0.18	£4.63
luckyjimbo	Call		£0.02	£0.20	£3.88
craigcu12	Raise		£0.30	£0.50	£5.26
wexy	Fold
luckydad	Call		£0.30	£0.80	£1.61
Countess13	Fold
luckyjimbo	Call		£0.30	£1.10	£3.58
Flop
		6 6 9
luckyjimbo	Check
craigcu12	Bet		£1.10	£2.20	£4.16
luckydad	Call		£1.10	£3.30	£0.51
luckyjimbo	Raise		£2.20	£5.50	£1.38
craigcu12	All-in		£4.16	£9.66	£0.00
luckydad	All-in		£0.51	£10.17	£0.00
luckyjimbo	All-in		£1.38	£11.55	£0.00
craigcu12	Unmatched bet		£1.68	£9.87	£1.68
luckyjimbo	Show	6 9
craigcu12	Show	A A
luckydad	Show	J 9
Turn
		9
River
		3
luckydad	Win	Full House, 9s and 6s	£2.74		£2.74
luckyjimbo	Win	Full House, 9s and 6s	£6.39		£6.39

devonfish5

hi craig,
this is the sort of thing i have been coming up against time after time,since returning to playing cash again this month.
doesn't it annoy you,but it's become the norm now i feel.
like every different game type people play,there is a way to beat it,it's just working it out how....that's the tricky part.
i'm still in the early stages here but it's becoming very clear to me that going all-in or even to showdown when holding just 1 pair,or 2 if you count the 66 here,is just not going to be good enough,a lot of the time.
even trips is another example that may not also be enough to win.

i played a session the other day where i lost with KK all-ins  all 4 times.
so the next session i folded my KK hands from the flop and yes i would have lost all but 1 had i played them.
the next session i slow played them and one about 50/50 i'd say.so what i'm trying to get at is there are many ways to play these type of hands maybe AA too.
gl anyway,
always enjoy the challenge of playing against you.

dev

devonfish5

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
nuk_em	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£1.06
Rza475	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£7.05
bobscot	Big blind		£0.04	£0.10	£3.96
	Your hole cards	A A
bokata	Fold
GROW5ER	Raise		£0.12	£0.22	£1.76
bobscot	Call		£0.08	£0.30	£3.88
devonfish5	Raise		£0.60	£0.90	£3.28
nuk_em	Fold
Rza475	Raise		£1.32	£2.22	£5.73
GROW5ER	Fold
bobscot	Fold
devonfish5	All-in		£3.28	£5.50	£0.00
Rza475	Call		£2.52	£8.02	£3.21
Rza475	Show	8 8
devonfish5	Show	A A
Flop
		6 5 7
Turn
		8
River
		7
Rza475	Win	Full House, 8s and 7s	£7.41

here's 1 for you...  lol

FCHD

Aren't those the sort of calls you want every single time?

Lambert180

Yeah don't get AA in against 88 pre!! Who wants to stack someone 80% of the time

JSTFLIPPIN

In Response to Re: typical another fish wins again and this time i did raise mega:

Aren't those the sort of calls you want every single time?
Posted by FCHD

Not on this site no, any other then sure.

JPW33

Given the flop of OP and the fact he had a call and a raise suggests at least one of them had a 6 and therefore fold the aces ? Easy to say I know after the event with all the cards laid out and I would probably have done the same lol 

devonfish5

In Response to Re: typical another fish wins again and this time i did raise mega:

Aren't those the sort of calls you want every single time?
Posted by FCHD

of course...
just not the final result

devonfish5

In Response to Re: typical another fish wins again and this time i did raise mega:

Yeah don't get AA in against 88 pre!! Who wants to stack someone 80% of the time
Posted by Lambert180

yeah,i'd love to win 80% of the time...
who wouldn't.
only thing is though Paul...i don't.

devonfish5

here are 10 typical hands i've just dealt out with 'real' playing cards;
 with me holding AA and opponent is holding 88

79jqk
5225q
8j4810
a3ka10
3679k
5252q
j47q10
j47q10
369o3
k79ka

i win 9 out of 10
happy with that.

now i'll post up my last weeks hands when holding AA...

devonfish5

Amount	Pot	Balance
purkiss64	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£4.07
nostaw4901	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£1.47
Mallard24	Big blind		£0.04	£0.10	£3.96
	Your hole cards	A A
kidwelly	Fold
Vichelski	Raise		£0.12	£0.22	£3.35
Mallard24	Fold
devonfish5	Raise		£0.36	£0.58	£10.53
purkiss64	Fold
nostaw4901	Fold
Vichelski	Raise		£1.00	£1.58	£2.35
devonfish5	All-in		£10.53	£12.11	£0.00
Vichelski	All-in		£2.35	£14.46	£0.00
devonfish5	Unmatched bet		£7.42	£7.04	£7.42
Vichelski	Show	K A
devonfish5	Show	A A
Flop
		2 10 J
Turn
		Q
River
		10
Vichelski	Win	Straight to the Ace	£6.53		£6.53

devonfish5

Pot	Balance
Howardo	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£1.54
MDFA	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£4.79
	Your hole cards	A A
johnm69	Raise		£0.16	£0.22	£2.93
georgie519	Fold
pokermask	Fold
devonfish5	Raise		£0.28	£0.50	£8.66
Howardo	Fold
MDFA	Fold
johnm69	Call		£0.12	£0.62	£2.81
Flop
		6 J 5
johnm69	Check
devonfish5	Bet		£0.31	£0.93	£8.35
johnm69	Call		£0.31	£1.24	£2.50
Turn
		4
johnm69	Check
devonfish5	Bet		£0.62	£1.86	£7.73
johnm69	Raise		£1.24	£3.10	£1.26
devonfish5	All-in		£7.73	£10.83	£0.00
johnm69	All-in		£1.26	£12.09	£0.00
devonfish5	Unmatched bet		£5.85	£6.24	£5.85
johnm69	Show	4 4
devonfish5	Show	A A
River
		2
johnm69	Win	Three 4s	£5.77		£5.77

devonfish5

Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
therising8	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£2.36
bigdodee87	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£3.43
	Your hole cards	A A
devonfish5	Raise		£0.20	£0.26	£3.74
ARTISAN14	Call		£0.20	£0.46	£2.37
bokata	Fold
jtm	Call		£0.20	£0.66	£5.75
therising8	Fold
bigdodee87	Call		£0.16	£0.82	£3.27
Flop
		Q 7 6
bigdodee87	Check
devonfish5	Bet		£0.82	£1.64	£2.92
ARTISAN14	Fold
jtm	Call		£0.82	£2.46	£4.93
bigdodee87	Fold
Turn
		7
devonfish5	Bet		£2.46	£4.92	£0.46
jtm	Call		£2.46	£7.38	£2.47
River
		3
devonfish5	All-in		£0.46	£7.84	£0.00
jtm	Call		£0.46	£8.30	£2.01
devonfish5	Show	A A
jtm	Show	5 9
jtm	Win	Flush to the 9	£7.67		£9.68

devonfish5

	£0.02	£0.02	£10.96
bokata	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£4.44
	Your hole cards	A A
patyboy1	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£3.17
Kanyu	Fold
pepo	Fold
devonfish5	Raise		£0.20	£0.30	£10.76
MADDOG79	Call		£0.18	£0.48	£10.78
bokata	Fold
patyboy1	Fold
Flop
		2 3 4
MADDOG79	Check
devonfish5	Bet		£0.48	£0.96	£10.28
MADDOG79	Call		£0.48	£1.44	£10.30
Turn
		Q
MADDOG79	Bet		£0.16	£1.60	£10.14
devonfish5	Raise		£1.92	£3.52	£8.36
MADDOG79	All-in		£10.14	£13.66	£0.00
devonfish5	All-in		£8.36	£22.02	£0.00
MADDOG79	Unmatched bet		£0.02	£22.00	£0.02
MADDOG79	Show	6 5
devonfish5	Show	A A
River
		3
MADDOG79	Win	Straight to the 6	£20.60		£20.62

5 losses (with the earlier AA hand posted)

devonfish5

		£0.02	£0.02	£3.92
slimy101	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£4.02
	Your hole cards	A A
pepo	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£4.89
devonfish5	Raise		£0.16	£0.26	£5.64
bokata	Fold
matk	Call		£0.16	£0.42	£3.80
moorey4	All-in		£3.92	£4.34	£0.00
slimy101	Fold
pepo	Fold
devonfish5	All-in		£5.64	£9.98	£0.00
matk	Fold
devonfish5	Unmatched bet		£1.86	£8.12	£1.86
moorey4	Show	K K
devonfish5	Show	A A
Flop
		3 6 7
Turn
		J
River
		8
devonfish5	Win	Pair of Aces	£7.51		£9.37

devonfish5

Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
JAM888	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£8.83
barx1210	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£6.30
ArfurDaley	Sit out
	Your hole cards	A A
jtm	Fold
pokermask	Fold
devonfish5	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£3.96
JAM888	Fold
barx1210	All-in		£6.30	£6.40	£0.00
devonfish5	All-in		£3.96	£10.36	£0.00
barx1210	Unmatched bet		£2.34	£8.02	£2.34
barx1210	Show	K A
devonfish5	Show	A A
Flop
		7 10 4
Turn
		4
River
		5
devonfish5	Win	Two Pairs, Aces and 4s	£7.41		£7.41

devonfish5

Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
GROW5ER	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£5.72
jtm	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£3.85
	Your hole cards	A A
Kanyu	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£3.75
pepo	Fold
devonfish5	Raise		£0.20	£0.30	£3.95
MADDOG79	Fold
GROW5ER	Raise		£0.80	£1.10	£4.92
jtm	Fold
Kanyu	Fold
devonfish5	All-in		£3.95	£5.05	£0.00
GROW5ER	Call		£3.33	£8.38	£1.59
GROW5ER	Show	K A
devonfish5	Show	A A
Flop
		2 7 J
Turn
		K
River
		5
devonfish5	Win	Pair of Aces	£7.75		£7.75

and 3 wins.

devonfish5

ok  so what?
what does that prove?

nothing ,it's a small sample only 8 hands...

i've won 3  & lost 5.

not quite 80% win rate.

more like 37.5%

i'll keep an eye on it,and i'll let you know how things work out for me.

i'm sure you will have something to say on this...you usually do.
i'm not saying anything is rigged or anything that's going to get me into trouble,'coz that would just be plain silly,wouldn't it.
i'm just giving you my facts regarding my AA hands played out over the last week.
now i'm not saying i couldn't have got away from any of them as i know i could have from 1 especially,but as played,those are the stone cold facts,no question.

who knows...maybe next week i will get that 80%win rate....
but i wouldn't be betting very much on it.

(* *)
   ^

waller02

In Response to Re: typical another fish wins again and this time i did raise mega:

here are 10 typical hands i've just dealt out with 'real' playing cards;  with me holding AA and opponent is holding 88 79jqk 5225q 8j4810 a3ka10 3679k 5252q j47q10 j47q10 369o3 k79ka i win 9 out of 10 happy with that. now i'll post up my last weeks hands when holding AA...
Posted by devonfish5

now try it with another 10 hands.......and this time shuffle the cards lol

devonfish5

In Response to Re: typical another fish wins again and this time i did raise mega:

In Response to Re: typical another fish wins again and this time i did raise mega : now try it with another 10 hands.......and this time shuffle the cards lol
Posted by waller02

tbf it was a new pack just opened and shuffled  lol

funny how they come out sometimes though.

BorinLoner

Devonfish, let me first agree that eight hands is not a relevant sample size. Now we've got that out of the way:

I doubt these are the last eight times you've had AA, because all of them go to showdown. Post all the hands that are folded without a showdown, too, or your data will be biased to favour one argument or another.

All of those hands that didn't go all-in pre-flop do not relate to the 80% figure. That figure is only applicable when all the money goes in before the flop. On the hands against 44 and 56 you got your money in as a big underdog and drawing dead, respectively, not as an 80% favourite.

If you get 100BB or more in to the pot post-flop with just one-pair, you should expect to be behind more often than not. If you get it in with AA pre-flop you will win more than 80% of the time in the long-run - You can't carry that forward to all-in's post-flop, though.

alimay

as a new player all these % are baffling, my o/h says after the flop use the rule of 4 and 2 does this make sense to anyone? 

devonfish5

In Response to Re: typical another fish wins again and this time i did raise mega:

Devonfish, let me first agree that eight hands is not a relevant sample size. Now we've got that out of the way: I doubt these are the last eight times you've had AA, because all of them go to showdown. Post all the hands that are folded without a showdown, too, or your data will be biased to favour one argument or another. All of those hands that didn't go all-in pre-flop do not relate to the 80% figure. That figure is only applicable when all the money goes in before the flop. On the hands against 44 and 56 you got your money in as a big underdog and drawing dead, respectively, not as an 80% favourite. If you get 100BB or more in to the pot post-flop with just one-pair, you should expect to be behind more often than not. If you get it in with AA pre-flop you will win more than 80% of the time in the long-run - You can't carry that forward to all-in's post-flop, though.
Posted by BorinLoner

thank you for the reply borin,
yes,you make good sense with what u say mate,and for a change i'm not getting moaned at for my post.  lol
yes agree these were all my AAhands that went to showdown,and were either wins/losses of more than £3
yes i had others i'm sure where players folded to me pre-flop.

yes,i also see now,how the 80% figure is only applicable if i go allin pre-flop,which i didn't on many hands here,did i...from memory.

thank you for taking the time to explain it to me properly and now i am a lot more wiser.
so i'm thinking then that i should be either looking to make a big raise with AA pre-flop,or better still get all the money in?

(* *)
   ^
dev

ps; just checked i did go all-in pre flop 5 times and won 3  lost 2  which again is i know a very sm sample but at least it shows a profitable win %   60%  and not the 37.5% that i thought earlier.  lol

devonfish5

In Response to Re: typical another fish wins again and this time i did raise mega:

as a new player all these % are baffling, my o/h says after the flop use the rule of 4 and 2 does this make sense to anyone? 
Posted by alimay

sorry not me mate....

but i don't know much myself....do i?  lol

devonfish5

how about KK?

this is an area that i am unsure about.
not as strong as AA obviously,but still a very strong hand.
would all-in pre-flop be profitable long term?
is going all-in very much player/situation dependant?

all help would be very much appreciated.
thank you

dev

TheHush

All-in pre-flop should usually be the desired outcome for KK (and AA) because if anyone sees a flop with a more marginal hand, they're more likely to hit something that beats you, or have a good draw to something that does if they see what their cards can connect. Remember, it's not all about winning ALL the money all the time, it's about winning the hand. Even if you just min-raise and everyone folds, at least you didn't lose.

If you have KK, and someone else has AA (or AK/AQ or pocket pair perhaps and hits their few remaining outs to leave you behind), then good luck to them, but usually KK and AA are miles ahead of everyone before you see a flop. Afterwards, the odds can often be much tighter and you don't neccessarily know where you are in the hand.

As an example, I slow-played AA earlier in 25p/50p cash (had it in the BB. Dealer raised to £1.50, I smooth called), and the board came out with Q high and two bricks with three diamonds. There was a little bit of cagey bet/calling on the flop to increase the pot to around £10. By the river, another low card and a fourth diamond meant anyone holding a 3 would have made a straight regardless of the other card they had, and any other diamond had a flush. I had the best hand, and was up against 99 (no diamonds), who potentially could have eventually led to a 4-bet had I 3-bet pre-flop, leading to the inevitable all-in. I made probably about £5 from the hand instead of about £80 or so. 

Moral of the story: Get the money in through careful raising. You're usually going to win. Also, 2p/4p is often full of beginners with small bankrolls who don't always know what they're doing and get lucky. You have to account for that if monster hands getv cracked too.

devonfish5

In Response to Re: typical another fish wins again and this time i did raise mega:

All-in pre-flop should usually be the desired outcome for KK (and AA) because if anyone sees a flop with a more marginal hand, they're more likely to hit something that beats you, or have a good draw to something that does if they see what their cards can connect. Remember, it's not all about winning ALL the money all the time, it's about winning the hand. Even if you just min-raise and everyone folds, at least you didn't lose. If you have KK, and someone else has AA (or AK/AQ or pocket pair perhaps and hits their few remaining outs to leave you behind), then good luck to them, but usually KK and AA are miles ahead of everyone before you see a flop. Afterwards, the odds can often be much tighter and you don't neccessarily know where you are in the hand. As an example, I slow-played AA earlier in 25p/50p cash (had it in the BB. Dealer raised to £1.50, I smooth called), and the board came out with Q high and two bricks with three diamonds. There was a little bit of cagey bet/calling on the flop to increase the pot to around £10. By the river, another low card and a fourth diamond meant anyone holding a 3 would have made a straight regardless of the other card they had, and any other diamond had a flush. I had the best hand, and was up against 99 (no diamonds), who potentially could have eventually led to a 4-bet had I 3-bet pre-flop, leading to the inevitable all-in. I made probably about £5 from the hand instead of about £80 or so.  Moral of the story: Get the money in through careful raising. You're usually going to win. Also, 2p/4p is often full of beginners with small bankrolls who don't always know what they're doing and get lucky. You have to account for that if monster hands getv cracked too.
Posted by TheHush

hi Hush,
thank you for your thoughts mate,appreciated.

i have been so unsure as to how to play KK all this month really,and have even had sessions where i was actually folding them by design,pre-flop would you believe.
yes,i'm sure playing them really aggressively pre-flop is likely to be the best option,as you yourself just showed slow playing them you are losing value as well as increasing the risk of losing,i guess.

so for the next few sessions it's all-out agression,and let's see how we end up.

thanks again buddy

dev