Call or fold? when opponent ships river

LARSON7

Would you call or fold this all in on river

Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
bobbyboy33	Small blind		£0.04	£0.04	£17.11
LARSON7	Big blind		£0.08	£0.12	£6.24
jam2	Big blind		£0.08	£0.20	£2.92
conall332	Ante		£0.04	£0.24	£7.88
	Your hole cards	A 9
beefcake26	Call		£0.08	£0.32	£8.64
jam2	Check
conall332	Fold
Nightdrive	Raise		£0.32	£0.64	£9.69
bobbyboy33	Fold
LARSON7	Call		£0.24	£0.88	£6.00
beefcake26	Fold
jam2	Call		£0.24	£1.12	£2.68
Flop
		7 9 3
LARSON7	Check
jam2	Check
Nightdrive	Bet		£0.56	£1.68	£9.13
LARSON7	Raise		£1.12	£2.80	£4.88
jam2	Call		£1.12	£3.92	£1.56
Nightdrive	Call		£0.56	£4.48	£8.57
Turn
		3
LARSON7	Check
jam2	Check
Nightdrive	Bet		£2.24	£6.72	£6.33
LARSON7	Call		£2.24	£8.96	£2.64
jam2	Fold
River
		7
LARSON7	Check
Nightdrive	All-in		£6.33

bearlyther

Fold pre why are you calling a limp and a 4x raise with a9 out of position?

RyanC7

In Response to Re: Call or fold? when opponent ships river:

Fold pre why are you calling a limp and a 4x raise with a9 out of position?
Posted by bearlyther

agree.

Even if you are your post flop play doesnt make much sense. If your re raising the flop and the biggest brick in the world drops why would you check if you feel your good here?

LARSON7

For pot control, plus i'm worried by the player that's  just calling. Im not 2 worried about the aggressor.

I should have just check raised all in on the turn.

I call the raise, cause i feel i'm ahead with ace 9 there (preflop). Tho use are right its hard playing it out of position.

bearlyther

Your check raising the flop for pot control?

The_Don90

Fold pre, the rest is just well confusing as played fold river. 

BorinLoner

Why do you feel you're ahead with A9? Logically, what range of hands does the button raise with, facing a limp and check from a poster?

I actually think there's a good chance that you're right and your A9 is the best hand, but against your two or three opponents' ranges you're only marginally ahead at best. Which cards are you going to be comfortable seeing on the flop? You won't see many 9-high flops and when you do, are you going to be sure you're ahead? Are you going to be happy building a big pot? So when you make the call you know you'll be playing a marginal hand, out of position to at least one and possibly two opponents, without the betting lead. I'd much prefer a 3-bet or a fold to a call.

On the flop, I really don't like the check-raise. If we have the best hand, it's very likely that our opponents fold every bluffing hand, losing us value, and there are very few worse made hands than ours that can call. If either of them have a draw we're giving them better odds than they need to make the call and hit on the turn. Even if the second player folds, the aggressor is being given pot odds of 280:56, which is 5:1. If he has just a flush draw and no overcards, the odds he needs to hit on the turn are 4:1. Essentially, by giving him better odds than he needs, we're paying him to hit. He makes money from this call and we lose money, regardless of whether we pay him any more if he hits.

If he has a better made-hand than us, then he's very unlikely to fold for our raise. So our raise on the flop loses value when we're winning, costs us money when they're drawing and costs us money when they're already winning. After we get to the flop, check-calling would be better than check-min-raising. Leading out would probably also be better than check-raising because at least then we might be called by worse and we don't allow draws or overcards to see a free turn card.

After check-raising the flop, we have to continue on the turn. The only logic behind the flop check-raise is to get value from flush draws or perhaps be called by worse made hands (which is very unlikely). Checking just allows those draws a free card and risks losing value against weaker made hands if a scare card comes on the river. This three shouldn't change much so it's a great card for us to continue on.

By the turn it's too late to worry about pot-control because we've only got a pot-size bet back. Any further betting at all commits us to the hand. We might as well shove on the turn once we've got this far in the hand.

After checking the turn and facing the bet, we should just be moving all-in. If our opponent has a draw, he'll call for the rest now but will fold the river if he misses. If he has a made hand, he'll call now but may fold the river if a danger card hits. So get it in here.

On the river, he is shoving but it's only for £2.64. You have to call now as you committed yourself on the turn. You're getting ridiculously good odds and there only needs to be a roughly 1/6 chance of you having the best hand to make this call correct.

Overall, there's no real reason to call pre-flop. If you think that the button is raising a wide range, then you can 3-bet. Calling just puts you in a really difficult position which leaves you guessing on every subsequent street.

LARSON7

Cheers guys, opponent was raising everything, so i gave him no credit at all pre flop.

I see what you are saying about raising preflop, atleast that will thin down the field or get original aggressor to fold.

Just a bit of a learning experience to improve my game. I'll watch what im doing now in b/b, small blind, when it comes to raises pre flop. Like a lot of players at lower limits, i do tend to call reasonabl raises out of the b/b say 3 times, with a wide range. I now know this is a mistake, and sure fire way to lose money.

I know this hand plays out funny, i need to bet turn, or check raise turn all in. Looking at thehand again i dont like the min raise on flop. Its weird i wasnt worried about the aggressor at all, but the player who was just calling.

As it turns out I won the hand, guy I had J Q, was a stone cold bluff.