You need to be logged in to your Sky Poker account above to post discussions and comments.
You might need to refresh your page afterwards.
Sky Poker forums will be temporarily unavailable from 11pm Wednesday July 25th.
Sky Poker Forums is upgrading its look! Stay tuned for the big reveal!
Criticising a player at the table?
There was an incident yesterday in the main event which really got to me.
One of my opponents decided to go all-in pre-flop with AK. I had J10, felt like having a bit of a gamble so decided to call. I hit the J and won the pot.
The opponent then starts complaining that I should not be calling with J10 and that I'm a very bad player. While he is right that most of the time, that it was a poor call - in that circumstance I was right to do so as I won the pot!
I don't think he should be criticising another player at the table. Not only is it rude, but it makes him sound like a massive idiot. I think sometimes people forget that going all-in puts your tournament life on the line. People also forget that anybody can call, would he have been madder if I called with 72 and won the pot? Would he have not minded if I called with AA and won the pot? Doesn't really make sense to me.
Would love to get some thoughts on this?
One of my opponents decided to go all-in pre-flop with AK. I had J10, felt like having a bit of a gamble so decided to call. I hit the J and won the pot.
The opponent then starts complaining that I should not be calling with J10 and that I'm a very bad player. While he is right that most of the time, that it was a poor call - in that circumstance I was right to do so as I won the pot!
I don't think he should be criticising another player at the table. Not only is it rude, but it makes him sound like a massive idiot. I think sometimes people forget that going all-in puts your tournament life on the line. People also forget that anybody can call, would he have been madder if I called with 72 and won the pot? Would he have not minded if I called with AA and won the pot? Doesn't really make sense to me.
Would love to get some thoughts on this?
Comments
it is poor behaviour.
opponent AK goes all in, pre-flop, wants someone to call
you call, opponent happy
opponent hopes you haven't got AA or KK
you show J10, opponent happy
then flop
opponent critical of you instead of understanding poker
opponent foolish being critical as what will be the end result? you leave?
bad opponent, bad, bad.
After a quick read of this a couple of things come to mind.
Firstly criticising is just not a good idea. You either educate the lesser player or drive them away, therefore reducing your own profit making capabilities. Also it is a sign of tilt and not something that should be advertised to all on the table.
Secondly.This comment
The opponent then starts complaining that I should not be calling with J10 and that I'm a very bad player. While he is right that most of the time, that it was a poor call - in that circumstance I was right to do so as I won the pot!
The highlighted bit is a major problem in your game. It is either a good call or a bad call. The factors that determine it are stack size, reads on opponent odds and situations. Factors that do not determine it are the final result. Making a bad call and winning is still a bad decision. Getting lucky does not change this in anyway.
So i think you should go back and look at this hand again. Look at how many times you will win and how much you win and how many times you will lose and how much you will lose. In this scenario you were a 2 to 1 underdog going in. Do you really want to keep getting your monay in at those odds?
You are allowed to call with what ever you want.
There is no way of saying it was a bad call unless we know stack sizes and blinds but its not a good call because you won, it does not work like that.
I would never agree with any type of abuse at the table but you must understand that sometimes after weeks/months of losing when you get it in ahead you might say a sarcy comment like nh ,well played or such ,just because of the frustration but it sounds like this guy said more than this which I think is wrong.
One of my pet hates is during a game people will say to someone why are you open raising so much or limping all the time and basically telling the inexperienced player they shouldnt be doing this.
If it becomes abuse or any bad words then it has overstepped the line and is IMO just wrong and should be reported.
Just remember this, though. They never complain when you make a "bad call" & they win the hand. Only when they lose.
The concept of "cake & eat it" is a little too complex for them to grasp.
We ALL get a tad irritated when a bad call busts us. I was called in PLO8 by J-8-8-3 yesterday - it really is hard to imagine ANY PLO8 hand which is worse than that. (It won, obv!). And he CALLED with it. Did it irk me a little? Of course it did. But you THINK these things, don't say them. A little dignity is required.
Move on, it is your money, play however you want, & rise above bad losers.
It's one of those things. There are jerks everywhere and if you passed someone in the street criticising the pattern on your socks, you'd just ignore him. It's even easier with online chat boxes.
Usually I just tell people to focus on their own game because that's how they'll improve. Then they usually get abusive because they're not very nice people. That's when they lose my attention.
As Talon says, thinking your call is good simply because you won is results oriented thinking. That's not a profitable way to view the game. We need to view our decisions as being either good or bad based upon our expected profit or loss, if we make the same decisions in the same situation over and over and over again. So if you make that call in that exact situation ten thousand times, will it make you money or cost you money?
Anyway, keep posting in the clinic. Ignore the idiots and listen to the... erm... not-idiots.
I had no history with this oppponent, this was the first pot of any note I'd played against him and I couldn't recall having come across him before so I can only assume he's a complete nutter. Sorry to bore you all with this but the incident has puzzled me for days.
In my view it's unacceptable to abuse your opponent in any circumstances though it's possible to understand it if someone's lost a big pot by getting unlucky but to do it when you've got lucky and won is incomprehensible.
I totally understand what you're saying, and yes, all-in on J10 is a bad call. The point I was trying to make was in that specific instance, it came up good. I know that this is a very bad play - but I fancied a gamble, I guess I had a feeling it would hit. Although the play is not "by the book", I do think it is important to play with instincts on rare occasions, just to mix up your image if nothing else :-)
In Response to Re: Criticising a player at the table?: Sounds like very wise words to me! I guess the original post was just a rant, bad losers will not put me off my game. Thanks for that teacake! :-)
In Response to Re: Criticising a player at the table?: Yep, that's the player! Read my response (above) to Talon's comment regarding my play.
Will keep posting in the clinic, it's such a useful resource!
In Response to Re: Criticising a player at the table?: Wow, that's crazy! Some people are just a bit aggressive by nature I guess!
Thanks for all the comments guys, nice to know that it's not just me who experienced this :-)
"you f**ing idiot i hope you die of Cancer" bit harsh as i only took 1 quid off him in a 1 quid hyper. lol.
I've also had someone say "I know where you live".
this is a copy and paste from the chat box the other night.
Really didn't like the attitude of player A,
after winning pots from player B and myself his tone was not very sporting to say the least.
Dignity is something that's important to most of us. It's amazing that some are able to look at themselves in the mirror.
I'm thick skinned so it didn't bother me in the slightest, in fact I laughed it off. Funnily enough the player involved is somebody who posts on this forum from time to time (and no, I won't be naming him!).
someone used to follow me when i had knocked him out, being abusive in the chat box. it happened more than once too. this behaviour stopped completely once i typed in the chat box, "stalker alert: his name". everyone playing sees what is happening. if he continues to respond just type the same thing. it works.
A Vespa is a Scooter not a bike !!
I did chortle :-)))