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Sky Poker - A poor reputation?
This is not intended to be a bad beat moan, although I've had my share tonight as I know I win overall, but I hope to encourage some serious discussion about the reputation and direction of Sky Poker. Also it's not a reaction to any bad beat I've been thinking about this post for a week now.
I played 2 MTTs tonight the 7-15 deepstack and then a late reg bounty hunter and the standard of play in both but especially the bounty hunter was shocking. The very first hand I witnessed in the bounty hunter saw a player call an allin preflop for half his stack with 47, the next hand another player called a preflop allin for his tournament life with 75. Plays like these are far from rare and I feel that Sky does nothing to try and improve the standard of play among it's players. I am thinking about certain analysts who appear on 861. Tikay always makes a point of saying that people pay their money and are entitled to play how they like which I totally agree with but surely with so much experience of the game he must despair when he sees poker being played so badly. These are not all players new to the game either some are experienced players. I love it when we get an analyst on 861 who calls it like it is and is willing to say on air why it is such a bad play. The last time I saw Carlos on the channel he pulled no punches and emphasised why calling out of position with 2 totally unconnected cards was not a good idea. There have been others such as Luke Schwartz but Carlos sticks in my mind.
Sadly bounty hunters just seem to encourage this type of play but I believe the number of bounty hunters is damaging Skys reputation. I can see Sky's point of view on bounty hunters they get the numbers and are over faster than other tourneys therefore more in rake but they will not attract the type of player who wants to learn and improve their game.
We have been told that numbers are up (but not for a while). I can't agree with that they are at least stagnant or even dropping. Last Saturday at 10pm I looked at the lobby and just over 3100 players were logged in. Guarantees are also being cut, even in bounty hunters now, as seen in the other thread about the main event bounty hunter so it hardly fills one with confidence.
Sky poker tour live events are popular and are usually a straight freezeout and bear no resemblance to what is generally available on the site. Is it not time for Sky to try and redress the balance a wee bit?
I played 2 MTTs tonight the 7-15 deepstack and then a late reg bounty hunter and the standard of play in both but especially the bounty hunter was shocking. The very first hand I witnessed in the bounty hunter saw a player call an allin preflop for half his stack with 47, the next hand another player called a preflop allin for his tournament life with 75. Plays like these are far from rare and I feel that Sky does nothing to try and improve the standard of play among it's players. I am thinking about certain analysts who appear on 861. Tikay always makes a point of saying that people pay their money and are entitled to play how they like which I totally agree with but surely with so much experience of the game he must despair when he sees poker being played so badly. These are not all players new to the game either some are experienced players. I love it when we get an analyst on 861 who calls it like it is and is willing to say on air why it is such a bad play. The last time I saw Carlos on the channel he pulled no punches and emphasised why calling out of position with 2 totally unconnected cards was not a good idea. There have been others such as Luke Schwartz but Carlos sticks in my mind.
Sadly bounty hunters just seem to encourage this type of play but I believe the number of bounty hunters is damaging Skys reputation. I can see Sky's point of view on bounty hunters they get the numbers and are over faster than other tourneys therefore more in rake but they will not attract the type of player who wants to learn and improve their game.
We have been told that numbers are up (but not for a while). I can't agree with that they are at least stagnant or even dropping. Last Saturday at 10pm I looked at the lobby and just over 3100 players were logged in. Guarantees are also being cut, even in bounty hunters now, as seen in the other thread about the main event bounty hunter so it hardly fills one with confidence.
Sky poker tour live events are popular and are usually a straight freezeout and bear no resemblance to what is generally available on the site. Is it not time for Sky to try and redress the balance a wee bit?
Comments
The trouble is that they can't be seen to really hammer the players because a) they are the customers, b) most are casual recreational, novice players, c) those guys are trying their best and d) they really do have the right to play however they like.
I remember Luke Schwartz' last show and, while I wouldn't have minded having a strip torn off my play, if I didn't take the game as seriously as I do, I might have been upset or even insulted. That's no good for anyone.
Sky also have the poker clinic and the rest of this forum...
On the rest of your post, I agree the standard of play isn't generally that great. It's probably because so much higher a proportion of Sky's players are those recreational players, drawn in by the (mostly) UK specific player pool and by the tv channel.
Being experienced isn't the same as being good. Lots of players play a lot but do nothing else to improve their game.
Numbers are down across most online poker sites, as far as I'm aware. The financial situation of most people has tightened up an there isn't as much money for burning on the tables. I don't think that's Sky's fault. Also it is true that numbers drop in the warmer months. That's probably not as big a factor as some would like you to believe, but it is true.
Generally speaking, I think Sky do a decent job. The software is improving and the games are pretty good. The MTT schedule needs a few tweaks but that's happening right now, apparently. I don't think Sky has a particularly bad reputation. No poker site is without its detractors and Sky is one that hasn't (yet) had a major controversy.
There is to many BH in my opinion, but i quite like playing these nowadays. You do get a fair few bad beats as people are calling so light, in saying that it's also a positive as you know 99% of the time you are getting paid off when you have a strong hand.
Would be good to see more freezout tournies, deeper than a BH, and a bit more shallow than a standard freezout.
To go back to the standard of play:
I imagine the standard's not too much worse on lower stakes MTT's and cash tables than on other sites. New players are new players, after all. However, higher up you'll find more pros grinding bigger sites because of the greater liquidity and greater opportunities to build rakeback.
Other sites are compatible with HUDs too, so they tend to be easier to grind.
The standard's not that bad on the higher tables here, though.
Did you not hear it's rigged? lol
I'd also be pretty gutted if they did anything that would stop people calling shoves with 57 lol
This thing about encouraging bad players just isn't true. Speak to a group of very good poker players and ask them 'hey do you wanna come play in an MTT where everyone calls shoves with ATC?'... the sharks would love it. Much the same as if I go to load up cash tables, if I see 2 tables running, one has good solid players on it, one has maniacs who haven't got a clue what they're doing.... it's not hard to imagine which one I'm gonna sit on.
If you do not understand this then you do not understand poker
A lot of people just do not understand how poker works
online poker in general has a bad rep
Dale, I've not read the other responses on here but I am frankly amazed by your opening post.
I've played you alot and been fortunate to meet you and play against you in person, you're a great person and a very good poker player........
WHY ON EARTH would you not want to play against these players???????
It honestly baffles me more than anything else in my life when good poker players moan about 'having' to play against bad poker players. It's just completely backwards thinking, we WANT to play these players, and PLEASE Sky bring us more of them!
Yes.... occasionally they suck out on us, GOOD they will come back! We want these players to come back, we want to play them every day, if over time you cannot make money from them...... The problem is not theirs, it is certainly not Sky's, you really need to look closer to home!
& right at the top of the list of reasons to play on sky poker.
It's skys biggest USP!
If the standard was high there'd probably be no site, because sky are way behind most other sites in most of the other important categories.
Hi Daggy.
I'm staggered by your Post.
"...Sky does nothing to try and improve the standard of play among it's players..."
Sorry, but I have to disagree. Sky Poker uses the TV Channel to try & give poker advice. It also includes, & promotes, a Poker Clinic on the Community/Forum.
I don't know of any other Online Poker Site that offers those two educational tools in tandem. Do you?
I get an average of 10 PM's a week asking my opinion on various poker situations, & I answer every one.
Not sure what else this site can, or more importantly, should, do, & I think we do more than any other site in these respects.
"analysts "calling it like it is", such as Luke Schwartz.
Being unreasonably harsh or rude to our Clients is never going to be acceptable, & is specifically not permitted. Why would we want to offend our Clients on TV? Ain't gonna happen, ever. To be ripped to pieces on TV must be the worst thing ever.
standard of play on Sky Poker is shocking (paraphrased)
I have seen this said so many times. Poker players everywhere sniff out value. If the Site were much softer than other Sites, they'd all be here helping themselves! If there are a lot of really BAD players here, it must be easy to win here, surely?......
Tikay always makes a point of saying that people pay their money and are entitled to play how they like which I totally agree with but surely with so much experience of the game he must despair when he sees poker being played so badly.
Despair? Surprised more than despair. The job of myself & the other Presenters is to try & help players, especially newbies, who need a little help with the basics.
I have been playing a lot of PLO8 on here recently, & the technical competence of many of the players is of variable standard - but that does not mean they are easy to beat - they are not! In recent days, I've been called after re-potting by hands such as J-8-3-3, & 7-8-9-10. These are disaster hands in PLO8, absolutely dreadful, they belong in the muck. A fancy dan player might try a RAISE with them, but calling with them is a train wreck. They both won though. Because that is how poker works.
Ever heard of "Rastafish"? He gets called every name under the sun because he is not technically competent. You try playing against him though, he is a pain in the whatsit. The same applies to players like Ali Mallu, Alan Stearn, or WSOP Bracelet Winner Lawrence Gosney. People abuse these guys daily, but thats just wrong.
Finally, yes, I defend the right of players to play any way they wish, it is their money, & their right. Who am I to tell people how to spend their money?
This whole "Sky Poker players are woefully bad" thing amazes me. Logically, if they were that bad, we'd all be millionaires, & there'd be 100,000 players on the site every night, & the imbalance between good & bad would soon correct itself.
The general thought process (not just you, its quite widespread) seems to be "I can't beat these awful players who make bad calls, I'd make more money playing against better players". That kite just don't fly, in my personal opinion.
Sorry to disagree with so much of your Post, & I hope you take my reply in the intended spirit.
Hope you have a grand weekend.
....and breathe......
I'm sure I won't be the only person here who's noticed that the worlds biggest online poker room has recently introduced 'Progressive Knockout' tournaments, including a high-profile WCOOP event. They are essentially a carbon copy of Sky's Bounty Hunter format. You know when those guys copy you you're doing something right.
My experience of other sites is very much the same as Don's. You see the same crazy play wherever you go at my buy-ins, it's no better or worse here than anywhere else in my opinion.
I don't play anywhere else but what i can gather no other site provides the help and support to its players as Sky does.
In fact i'm pretty sure no other site goes to the expense of putting on a dedicated Tv show, which is not only entertaining (apart from Orford of course) but hugely informative.
I said in my first paragraph that it wasn't a moan about bad beats or bad play but then I went off on one saying exactly that. Sky Poker has been good for me and I was wrong to criticise like I did. I wanted to give my opinion on why i thought Sky needed to rethink 1 or 2 things and totally lost focus. When i play poker I try to play the best I can and have looked to improve my game. The ironic thing is before I joined Sky as a player I watched the poker channel all the time and it helped me become a better player, not least of all Tikays advice on the shows so I owe you an apology Tikay. It was wrong for me to single you out like that. I just found it very frustrating to see players with experience playing so poorly but as Borin Loner said experience doesn't mean good and I let feelings get the better of me.
Simon I agree totally with you these players are our bread and butter and I should have made that clear in my opening paragraph or better still stuck to what I really wanted to say.
I would like to add it's not just been a bad week as Stoke said for various reasons I've had a bad few months
and maybe things just got on top of me. I just wish I had read it all back and then pressed cancel.
He is great for this site, without sounding up his axx lol. Just look at the post on show nite with him compare to the rest of the shows. A ll he ever does is help you guys & bite his tongue when hes in the firing line.
Me
We all have bad days, & you've been big enough to say so, & do it publically.
I'll tell you a pet loathing of mine now. I get insulted & verbally abused a LOT on here, & often, the Poster then realises they were wrong. So they apologise - via PM! Really makes my head spin, that, if someone has a pop at me in public & then apologises in private, the apology is worthless.
Have a great weekend Daggy, & get yourself over to the "Weekend Thread".
We are not all on here to grind out multi-table cash or DYMs, or try and bink a fast action MTT shovefest
Some of us just want to enjoy a good game of poker and low stakes good structure tourneys are ideal for that.