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Our Community = Your Community
Morning.
There has been some discussion about “closed threads”, & I’d like to explain a few things.
Hopefully some misunderstandings will be resolved, & if necessary, we can have a constructive debate.
I’m more than happy to field any questions if they are reasonable & constructive.
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Comments
Why do Sky Poker have a Forum, or “Community”.
It is intended to be somewhere where we can chat about poker, have some banter, the occasional chirp perhaps, exchanger poker & non-poker anecdotes, & just generally chill.
Feedback from players, good or bad, is very important, too, & everything gets read.
It is NOT CC (Customer Care).
CC problems are the responsibility of CC.
Nobody from the Business will deal with regular CC issues here, there would be no point in having a fully staffed, in house, CC department if they did.
It just makes no sense to duplicate CC.
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Why don’t many other Online Poker Sites have these Forums? I
Have you ever considered that?
It’s a USP – a “UNIQUE SELLING POINT” - or almost so.
Almost every Online poker site had a Forum originally, but they have almost all closed them down. Exactly as Channel 861 is, & many other things – it is a Sky Poker USP.
Why is that?
The question answers itself, but in short, they can be very difficult to Moderate & manage, because they are “tied” to a specific site, & financed & managed by that site.
They also cost time, resource, & money, so they want that used productively.
To take an easy example, but one which, until today, I don’t think I’ve ever read on the Forum, why would Sky Poker run a Forum that helps to promote OTHER sites? How does that ever make an iota of sense?
It does not.
This is nothing to do with “Free Speech”, it is just plain A-B-C common sense.
Sky Poker do not feel the need to allow this Forum to be used to assist players to move away & play elsewhere.
I cannot imagine ANY business would allow such a thing.
Try erecting a placard in your local Tesco saying “Come shop at Asda, it’s better & cheaper”!
You’d soon be out on your ear, with or without your pound of eggs.
More….
The “Staking” thing.
In effect, that Company, which effectively does not allow players to be staked on Sky Poker, is getting free advertising here to entice players AWAY from here.
How can that ever be justified?
It can’t, & it won’t.
That Thread has been allowed to continue, but please, we do not want to see adverts taking players AWAY from this site, or effectively promoting other sites, that’s just plain wrong.
Surely that is obvious?
So we’d appreciate it if you understood that, & took it into account.
There ARE plentiful comments & threads about the Site on The Hendon Mob, on 2+2, & elsewhere. There is NOT a thread about them on blonde, as blonde would not permit it – because it clashes with blonde’s Sponsor. Exactly the same logic as here, really.
I think you should read those threads on THM & 2+2 by the way, they are quite informative. google is your friend, as always.
Sky Poker don’t want the responsibility for effectively promoting such sites either, for legal reasons. There is no suggestion it is not fully kosher, none whatsoever, but it has no track record yet.
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HUD debate.
Again, the question was fair enough, & I’m sure wholly innocent, but think about it.
“Help me to play elsewhere please?”
Why would Sky Poker ever do that?
There are lots of independent poker forums, I can think of 20 off the top of my head, they are the places to discuss such stuff.
For clarity here, Sky Poker have never knowingly allowed HUD's, & never will as far as I can see.
There are good reasons for this (depending where you sit…) but other Sites are now considering adopting the same stance, & some already do.
They will always exist, but the Online poker world will eventually be divided into those that allow, & those that don’t.
As such, certain types of player will prefer one to the other, which is abso fine. This is another matter which is being hotly debated on most of the independent poker forums at present, including 2+2.
Incidentally, you may be aware that Online Poker is gradually returning to the USA, in a proper, regulated form. This is a good thing, imo. As far as I am aware, NONE of the newly regulated sites in the USA allow HUD’s. There is a thread about that on 2+2 right now.
A well known UK Skin has just adopted a "No HUD" policy for part of its site, too.
Reasonable or unreasonable?
I suppose it depends which side of the table you sit!
Every time a thread gets closed, or a Member gets warned or banned, is a bad thing for both parties, it just is.
Why would Sky Poker want that to happen?
They want to GAIN players, not lose or upset them.
It costs a bunch of money to offer Promotions & advertisements to get players here, why would they want to upset them?
Is this problem entirely Sky Poker’s responsibility?
No, I don’t believe it is.
BOTH parties – the players, AND the Business – have responsibilities to be sensible here, you can’t say all the blame lies on one side for closed threads, it takes two to tango.
I hope this explains a few things, & we can avoid those sort of situations in future.
Happy to field any questions, but go easy on me, my knees playing up a treat today.
To be fair, the good FAR outweighs the bad, & this place is as good as any.
Some people just DO behave very differently on Forums than in real life though, just as seemingly retiring minnie-mouse won't say boo to a goose type blokes get all aggro when they get behind the wheel of a car.
One man is the rudest man in earth when he is on forums, but when he meets me in person, he addresses me respectfully & politely, even calls me "sir". Go figure that!
For balance, I must say, I've met so many really decent people on here, many of whom have become "real life" friends & acquaintances.
We'll be just fine.
I am active on another couple of forums, and where I can I use my real name as it makes me feel a little more repsonsible about what I post if it can be directed straight back to the real me.
For instance, yesterday someone was saying something about having never heard one of the biggest rock songs ever when it was a hit. I was about to start my post "Where have you been living, in a cave?", thought about it for 2 seconds. decided I wouldn't really appreciate it if someone said it in that manner to me and toned it down to something like "I'm surprised about that, it was all over radio at the time"
Having said that, I do believe that at least one of the Sky Mods is a little too "trigger happy" with the "close thread" option, see the threads on the UKOPS 3-max debacle and what could be done to improve things in the future.
"look at this great site, they gave me a fantastic deal, but you have to play elsewhere"
....is only one step removed from
"hey guys, there is a great Tourney on Party Poker tonight, you ought to come play it"
.....or even
"Tilt are offering Double Rewards this week, get over there".
I need to be a bit careful how I phrase stuff, folks can take offence very easily, but those sort of things just ain't right.
Did you know some people actually tried Posting that sort of stuff? And yes, it gets emoved, & rightly so.
If I go on, say, the Betfair Forum & say "hey, come play at Sky Poker", I'd get a thick ear, & pretty quick. There has to be a line in the sand somewhere.
Couple of reasons why i stay on Sky to play poker:
1. The Community & this Forum.
2. I want to play poker on a level playing field and not against people using HUD's to gain an advantage (not that they need one against me !).
Cheers
Mick
It is impossible to be a Moderator & please everyone. Believe me, I do know, I have my own baby elsewhere, & sometimes it is a right pain in the whatsit.
That exanple of how to reply is spot on. Things come across different in writing,. You could say version 1 to his face, but in writing, not so much.
The 3-Max thing? Well I don't know which Mod you refer to, but thats history now, & we just need to make sure it does not happen again.
Some effort is needed by both parties, but that is the same with all worthwhile things.
What sort of Forum do you moderate, by the way? Football, is it?
I use loads of forums, but mainly poker, plus stuff like Flight Radar (tracks aeroplane movements), shipping (boaty things), "BirdForum" which has thousands of bird photos) flying birds...), & my favourite which is called PPRuNe.*
* PPRuNe stands for "Proferssional Pilots Rumour Network", & I love it to bits.
Oh, & some concrete forums. And Pylons......
Perhaps the same should apply to live events?
I do understand all the points that you have made but disagree slightly on some of them.
The good stuff
I think we are very lucky to have a forum like this. As you stated not many other sites do this and i'm sure along with the TV side, it is a huge draw for many.
Moderation is also good. I go on another forum that is also run very well and is moderated. Places like 2+2 are not for me.
Also by being a regular on the forum and getting to know people through screen names, I have then gone on to meet them at live events and made really good friendships.
Sky put on some really good things for forum members. It's absolutely lovely when we have TOPT and people get nominated. What a nice feeling when somebody nominates you for something you've written on a forum. The freerolls are fine too. Absolutely amazed that we have threads grumbling about Sky about these. Make me a mod and i'll shut them down instantly for you
The not so good stuff
I think Sky shut things down far too quickly. Of course I can see what you're saying about the recent thread that was closed. However, look at it from anther perspective. Reasonable debate on this would have been fine and actually may have reinforced players decisions to play on Sky. I think it was FlashFlush who commented that he didn't like HUDS and this was one of the reasons he only played on Sky. I agree with him and it is a big reason why I play on this site.
When people put forward suggestions, it's generally because they want to improve the site. As with everything Sky isn't perfect and when good suggestions are made I think they should be listened too. Often we see something along th e lines of "We thank you for your input and will consider your proposals. All things considered though, THREAD CLOSED" I find this so frustrating.
You warn or ban people every time you close a thread? Please don't tell me that Rock got a warning for the thread?
I appreciate that it is a very tough job trying to strike the right balance and I think in general Sky do it really well. However as I stated at the start, I think the moderation is just a little heavy handed at times.
Hope the knees feeling better.
https://www.skypoker.com/secure/poker/sky_lobby?action=show_static&page=poker_community_forums&plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat:57795ac2-1793-4377-b4cf-e124b0f555f4Forum:fe44ed5b-a5bb-4eec-b300-cc40d1b3a210Discussion:4d51cabd-0d3a-44a2-92dc-8e2f958900d3
Live Events? Interesting one. It happens all the time, but hitherto, the Business seems not to be troubled by it, so we should maybe let sleepimg dogs lie.
If such talk were not welcome, well yes, then it gets very hard to draw the line.
Peeps are always saying "I played at DTD this weekend", or "I was in the UKIPT thing", & personally, that seems perfectly reasonable to me, as long as people dont take the wee wee.
GUKPT is another example, but less of a worry, because, really, they don't have a meaningful Online Poker Site of any worth, with due respect.
These are my views & opinions, not necessarily those of the Business, but I think the "Live" thing is fine as it is.
If someone Posted "you can qualify for the Genting thing tonight if you play on Genting.com", that'd be as step too far, of course.
None of these things are black & white, & it's quite hard to find the line which everyone thinks is fair & reasonable.
There ARE some very unreasonable things on Sky Poker, of course. Here, for example, is Sammy Smug.
PS - many thanks for the help you give on the Orfordable League, & good luck on Friday. I've arranged the seat.
That thread was a classic do we / don't we moderate.
You make some very fair points. It's possible that privately, I may agree with some of them.........
I'm trying to look FORWARD, not back, & hope that both parties will be better for it.
Upstairs never asked me or told me to do this thread, but the whole issue bothers me enormously, because it is largely misunderstandaments. Lifes too short & all that....
"we thank you for your input, da de da". Well there is you & me speak, & there is Corporate speak. In truth, the two don't mix well on a poker forum. I'm trying to build bridges here, to stop problems in the future.
Did Rock get a warning? I've no idea, it is none of my business. The point I was making (perhaps badly) is that, generally, & as far as I know, yes, people who cross the Compliance line DO get a PM.
Moderation too harsh? Maybe, maybe not. We all do it differently. You've seen how I help do it elsewhere, but that is a different place altogether, & not part of a Corporation.
Anyway, the idea is that both parties may be more understanding from here on in, & if this helps achieve that, it'll be worth the effort. We can rake over the coals all day & night, but it ain't gonna solve anything now.
My knees are much better, thank you, but the dogs are barking now. Went to Alum Bay (Isle of Wight) at the weekend, & instead of using the Chair Lift, I used the steps down to the beach. 198 of them down. I had forgotten the 198 back up, though.....
People do not do it intenionally, it just dos not cross their mind. The internet is destroying stuff like "etiquette".
Eventually, there will be two types of site, those that allow & those that don't, & players will decide where to play.
Some quite interesting scenarios are possible there.....when every player on a site has a HUD, where will the advantage be then?......
Like most of us here, I'm a recreational player, and I joined Sky Poker eighteen months ago to play the game the way it was intended to be played - fairly, and without abuse and/or aggravation. I think a lot of people forget (and some don't even realise) that the forum is an addition to what happens on the felt, and the fact that it is here at all is a tick in Sky's box. You will not find a forum like this anywhere else.
So, before people get too excited about complaining and moaning about what is and isn't permitted on these pages, they should remember that their ability to say anything at all - good, bad, or indifferent - is only done so at Sky's discretion. The forum was introduced to integrate our community, so that we feel more like a family, rather than just an avatar and a silly username. That's why 861 is here as well.
And besides, someone has to be in charge of the content, and I'd rather it was Sky than some of the loose cannons around this place.
A lot of people enjoy the chat that goes on in the forum - be it poker related or not - and for many the nature of it, as well as the live events, has promoted the social aspect of poker that you simply do not see elsewhere. Some have even made lasting friendships as a result of this community, both online and in person.
So, before you castigate the moderators for taking on a job they really don't have to do at all, perhaps you should think about what the forum does bring to the table, and how Sky Poker just wouldn't be the same without it.
Brian
As far as the HUDs issue is concerned I too am glad Sky don't allow it and long may that continue but I don't think the debate was encouraging anyone to play on other sites it was actually the exact reverse IMHO.
The forum is probably the main reason I spend most of my poker time on sky (its certainly not because I have an edge on here far from it) it is a USP but my father taught me to be honest if I have anything to say or keep it shut!
Last but not least I am of the opinion that had the author of the HUD debate realised that Sky would have taken the line they did he would have never asked for help on here in the 1st place. The phrase making a mountain out of a molehill comes to mind but may be from both sides of the debate.
Isn't that sort of promoting other sites if they are showing they are winning a lot elsewhere?
Interesting thought has come to mind with reference to the HUD thread.
Why did he post it on this forum?
I dont believe for a second that is was with any bad intent or advertising reasons. So the answer must be that he thought that posting on this forum on this site would generate the sort of replies that he needed.
For me this says a lot of good about the forum. It says that the people who look through these threads can be trusted and relied upon to give good responses to serious questions. Ok the question turned out to be a bit inappropriate but the fact that this was selected as the place for it says something. We need to keep this forum as a place where people can ask question in the knowledge they will get sensible replies. We need to keep the people replying on these threads, open and honest. In other words we need to keep everything that is good about this forum. Once the boundaries are established and well known then surely it can only be for the good of the forum. We mustnt lose sight of why we like the forum.