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Have I just become a loosing player overnight????

edited October 2013 in Poker Chat
Hi all, I have recently been staked on another site and I have to say its been awful, Iv had 2 or 3 decent results but im grinding crazy hours I really dont think I am playing to bad apart from 2 or 3 sessions were I have just became a tilt monster due to run bad. I cant put my finger on what I am doing wrong, Im going over hand histories constantly and I can honestly say in my opinion I am playing pretty well, my confidence has hit an all time low and I am debating giving up the game because it has become sooo demorilising, Im not sure if certain factors such as I am used to playing 6max come into it, over there the fields are sooooooooooo much bigger than sky. Is it possible to become a loosing player overnight ??? my graph apart from 3 results is dire !!! How do i get my confidence back ????
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Comments

  • edited October 2013
    In Response to Have I just become a loosing player overnight????:
    Hi all, I have recently been staked on another site and I have to say its been awful, Iv had 2 or 3 decent results but im grinding crazy hours I really dont think I am playing to bad apart from 2 or 3 sessions were I have just became a tilt monster due to run bad. I cant put my finger on what I am doing wrong, Im going over hand histories constantly and I can honestly say in my opinion I am playing pretty well, my confidence has hit an all time low and I am debating giving up the game because it has become sooo demorilising, Im not sure if certain factors such as I am used to playing 6max come into it, over there the fields are sooooooooooo much bigger than sky. Is it possible to become a loosing player overnight ??? my graph apart from 3 results is dire !!! How do i get my confidence back ????
    Posted by K8LOU
    come back to sky!

    bigger field sizes will mean variance hits harder
    9/10 max changes board dynamics, makes position even more relevant (ie you now have utg-1 utg-2 etc compared to a 6max) etc etc

    so best to do your grinding here while learning how to play there
  • edited October 2013

    Bigger fields = bigger variance.

    It's that simple, K8.

     
  • edited October 2013
    The V word or you were always a break even/losing player on a heater :)
  • edited October 2013
    In Response to Have I just become a loosing player overnight????:
    Hi all, I have recently been staked on another site and I have to say its been awful, Iv had 2 or 3 decent results but im grinding crazy hours I really dont think I am playing to bad apart from 2 or 3 sessions were I have just became a tilt monster due to run bad. I cant put my finger on what I am doing wrong, Im going over hand histories constantly and I can honestly say in my opinion I am playing pretty well, my confidence has hit an all time low and I am debating giving up the game because it has become sooo demorilising, Im not sure if certain factors such as I am used to playing 6max come into it, over there the fields are sooooooooooo much bigger than sky. Is it possible to become a loosing player overnight ??? my graph apart from 3 results is dire !!! How do i get my confidence back ????
    Posted by K8LOU
    It sounds like the responsibilty of being staked is too much for you. Are you getting feedback on your HH from the stakers? Sky is one of the softer sites so maybe it gives us a false impression of our abilities and playing in bigger tourneys with better opposition is a bit of a wake up call. Get back to Sky on the 6 max tables and get the fun back into your poker.
  • edited October 2013
    No, you haven't, it sounds like a standard MTT downswing to me.

    The much bigger fields on the other site offer much bigger binks, however they also mean much bigger gaps between those binks. On a site with very large fields it will take a far bigger sample to get close to your long-term expected ROI than it would here on Sky. Hence your bankroll needs to be much deeper. For a juicy score you need to make a final table, even if there are thousands of entrants.

    I'm a losing player on PS. I know I'd be a winner there in the long run, but I haven't played nearly enough games to get anywhere close to the long run.

    Bounty Hunter tournaments on Sky are about the lowest variance MTTs you'll find anywhere online due to the super flat pay-out structure and relatively small fields.

    Good luck.
  • edited October 2013

    Hi m8. Yeh Tikay says it all, TBH. Gary and Daggs post correct aswell. I would say I was
    a decent MTT player and took me a while to get a few good cashes on PS.
    On Sky less players, and obv 6 max might suit your game better, takes while to adapt to 9 at a table. Good luck m8, Guys might be right if your winning on Sky get back... Play odd biggy on other sites, But make Sky ure main site.

  • edited October 2013
    could be wrong here but to me it looks a bit like you are putting to much pressure on yourself to win because you are being staked, i no its hard but dont expect to cash before you play just play your A game and the results will come if you are any good. its like when someone goes out on the drink desperate to pull it bird, it usually never happens, things come when you dont expect them.
  • edited October 2013
    Rancid makes a fair point; variance can benefit us as well as hurt us, so your previous good results may have been exaggerating your sense of your own performances. I don't know that, of course, but people tend to attribute their wins to good play and their losses to variance.

    Another issue that's common is people reviewing their hand histories in a vacuum. You see it all the time in the clinic: People post their hand and offer no information on their opponents, just asking "What do you think of this play?" We can't really judge whether a play was good in a vacuum, we can only hypothesise circumstances in which it would be good and circumstances in which it would not be good.

    So when reviewing your own hand histories, make sure you're thinking about whether this play was good against this particular opponent, in these particular circumstances. If you don't know much about the opponent you're playing against, ask yourself why you don't know more. If you have only just joined a the table with this player, would it have been better to take a more ABC approach, etc. etc...


    Of course it may be that you're playing well and just not having a good run. It is important to reflect on our results as a whole, though, because our losses are just as indicative of our ability as our victories.
  • edited October 2013
    Glad I didn't make the same mistake you did. My advice: pay your make-up and leave, you don't need that stress of running up huge make-ups just for the sake of a 60% keep of profit. The fields are also tougher on stars to sky. That company should just change their name to wonga2.com
  • edited October 2013
    Bigger fields. 

    I would like to share my personal experiances in my ability to help here. On sky Feilds you'll normally experiance are 30-300. Slightly bigger for some mains etc. 

    On say stars for example, not including capped mtts your feilds are probably closer to 3000-10000 runners. 

    Usually an mtt pays out around 10-15% of the field, depending on circumstances. Lets say that all pay 10% for easiness. So now on sky you need to out last 270 people for a cash, 299 for a win. on stars you have to out last so many more. 

    Now I'm not saying its purely down to field sizes, but that means more all in situations, which means more flips, more times you have to hold or get there. All this makes it much much harder to win an mtt, or even cash, and min cashing in some mtts just isn't worth your time. 


    I wish you all the best. 
  • edited October 2013
    move to 180 90 Sng to reduce to variance- also being a winning player on sky poker does not mean your a winning player on any other site- the standard of play can be alot higher but that may be a good thing as it can improve your own game- 

    how are you reveiwing your session- spending a few mintues looking at HH doesnt solve much you have to really work hard on and off the tables-
    GL with it
  • edited October 2013
    Cheers for the input all, all valid points but I deffo agree with dagg and I think I my game may needs a total overhaul if I am going to continue to play over there, Its a totally different game over there but im sure in the end it will improve me as a player, for 1 the standard is much better, 2 the fields in the mtts are sooooo much bigger, I spoke to 1 of the lads the other day and he reckons I should be at least min cashing 1 in 3 of the bigger fields !! this sounds absolutly ludacris to me, I dont think most of the pros would be able to acheive this, another thing is I think im doing myself any favour because I am putting loads of pressure on myself I think you have it spot on rock, I think this may be affecting my decision making, totally agree dohhhhh its soooo harddd but its not impossible to get that big bink !! iv been deep in a number of the big buy ins over there and if won a flip ere or a flip there a would of been in a position to mount a serious challange to bink the tourney. As Daiw knows full well he won the 109 rebuy last week for 15k so i think it is deffo doable, just need that but of run good..
  • edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Have I just become a loosing player overnight????:
    Glad I didn't make the same mistake you did. My advice: pay your make-up and leave, you don't need that stress of running up huge make-ups just for the sake of a 60% keep of profit. The fields are also tougher on stars to sky. That company should just change their name to wonga2.com
    Posted by RyanC7
    I dont understand this make-up. Is it risk free for the stakers? A staked player does all the work, has to pay back all his losses and keeps only a percentagen of his winnings?


    Cheers, 
    TEDDY
  • edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Have I just become a loosing player overnight????:
    move to 180 90 Sng to reduce to variance- also being a winning player on sky poker does not mean your a winning player on any other site- the standard of play can be alot higher but that may be a good thing as it can improve your own game-  how are you reveiwing your session- spending a few mintues looking at HH doesnt solve much you have to really work hard on and off the tables- GL with it
    Posted by LnarinOO

    Yehhh time needs to be spent on it mate, I use holdemmanager mate, it has a thing called leak buster on it hoping this will give me an extra 10 percent at the tables..

  • edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Have I just become a loosing player overnight????:
    Cheers for the input all, all valid points but I deffo agree with dagg and I think I my game may needs a total overhaul if I am going to continue to play over there, Its a totally different game over there but im sure in the end it will improve me as a player, for 1 the standard is much better, 2 the fields in the mtts are sooooo much bigger, I spoke to 1 of the lads the other day and he reckons I should be at least min cashing 1 in 3 of the bigger fields !! this sounds absolutly ludacris to me, I dont think most of the pros would be able to acheive this, another thing is I think im doing myself any favour because I am putting loads of pressure on myself I think you have it spot on rock, I think this may be affecting my decision making, totally agree dohhhhh its soooo harddd but its not impossible to get that big bink !! iv been deep in a number of the big buy ins over there and if won a flip ere or a flip there a would of been in a position to mount a serious challange to bink the tourney. As Daiw knows full well he won the 109 rebuy last week for 15k so i think it is deffo doable, just need that but of run good..
    Posted by K8LOU
    A minor point but Daiw won 1500 not 15000 as he typed. ($ I assume)

    And mincashing in 2 out of 3? Sorry he's in cloud cuckoo land.
  • edited October 2013
    come back to sky its the softest site going i went on a diff site and i had a bad 3 months on there then come bk to sky n win go figure 
  • edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Have I just become a loosing player overnight????:
    Cheers for the input all, all valid points but I deffo agree with dagg and I think I my game may needs a total overhaul if I am going to continue to play over there, Its a totally different game over there but im sure in the end it will improve me as a player, for 1 the standard is much better, 2 the fields in the mtts are sooooo much bigger, I spoke to 1 of the lads the other day and he reckons I should be at least min cashing 1 in 3 of the bigger fields !! this sounds absolutly ludacris to me, I dont think most of the pros would be able to acheive this, another thing is I think im doing myself any favour because I am putting loads of pressure on myself I think you have it spot on rock, I think this may be affecting my decision making, totally agree dohhhhh its soooo harddd but its not impossible to get that big bink !! iv been deep in a number of the big buy ins over there and if won a flip ere or a flip there a would of been in a position to mount a serious challange to bink the tourney. As Daiw knows full well he won the 109 rebuy last week for 15k so i think it is deffo doable, just need that but of run good..
    Posted by K8LOU
    The best players in the world, assuming reasonable sample size, can't achieve anything approaching that.

    Ask your mate to provide you with the evidence. He can't, & wont.

    Really surprised you bought that tale, to be honest. You must know that is not realistically possible?
  • edited October 2013
    To be fair K8 has been playing on Sky as well presumably with his own bankroll.
  • edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Have I just become a loosing player overnight????:
    In Response to Re: Have I just become a loosing player overnight???? : The best players in the world, assuming reasonable sample size, can't achieve anything approaching that. Ask your mate to provide you with the evidence. He can't, & wont. Really surprised you bought that tale, to be honest. You must know that is not realistically possible?
    Posted by Tikay10

    Yeh ino mate, just sets a few doubts in the back of my head cos im lucky to cash in 10 !!!!! ha
  • edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Have I just become a loosing player overnight????:
    come back to sky its the softest site going i went on a diff site and i had a bad 3 months on there then come bk to sky n win go figure 
    Posted by IDONKCALLU

    Yeh Im still on ere mate just not playing half as much volume, Im not saying i want to play with better players but playing with better players helps improve you as a player.

  • edited October 2013
    Sorry to hear its not going well.
    Just a couple of things what games are you playing and are you multi tabling.
    The 180 and 90 sngs are good games and on average the 180 ones are over within 2hours.
    The staking thing as mentioned I think you should rethink.
    My reason for this is, if they say play the big mtts how would you feel if you binked and had to hand over that cash.
    The big mtts are soo top heavy.
    I played one on Saturday and came 14th out of 15000 runners.
    The difference between 14th and 1st was over 18k.
  • edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Have I just become a loosing player overnight????:
    Sorry to hear its not going well. Just a couple of things what games are you playing and are you multi tabling. The 180 and 90 sngs are good games and on average the 180 ones are over within 2hours. The staking thing as mentioned I think you should rethink. My reason for this is, if they say play the big mtts how would you feel if you binked and had to hand over that cash. The big mtts are soo top heavy. I played one on Saturday and came 14th out of 15000 runners. The difference between 14th and 1st was over 18k.
    Posted by day4eire76
    Yeh mate they are really top heavy, every mtt on there seems really top heavy, iv started grinding the 8 dollar 180s today most i can play is 10 tables, but im averaging about 7 to 8 with a few of the 3.50 rebuys and 2.50 180 thrown in cos they dont fill up that fast, I have had 2 results in them 180s today so things are looking a bit better today but I am min cashing alot, I also had a 30th in the big 11 so if I would of finaled that things may of been a different story but I didint and I have to get on with it i just keep loosing them massive flips which will make or break your tourney, win a few more of them its job done ayyyy !!!
  • edited October 2013
    Mine was the big 11 on Saturday which had a double gtd aswell.
    If you can multi table the 180s variance should even out.
    I found there is a big diff between the 8 and 15 buyins so if your playing the 15 maybe slightly reduce amount of tables.

    GL
  • edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Have I just become a loosing player overnight????:
    Mine was the big 11 on Saturday which had a double gtd aswell. If you can multi table the 180s variance should even out. I found there is a big diff between the 8 and 15 buyins so if your playing the 15 maybe slightly reduce amount of tables. GL
    Posted by day4eire76
    Nice 1 mate the carnival 1 ??? mine was a carnival but it wernt double !! vwp and yeh il keep that in mind.
  • edited October 2013
    jus had a loook at your SS - you seem to be losing quite a lot for the small limits your playing..! 
    imho id reduce the volume your playing until your playing optimally on every table.. unless your comfortable with your HUD and can play A game on all tables - your playing far too many.. you dont want to be blinding away until you get to the point where its tourney life and your forced to GII - you should be able to find the soft spots at the table and exploit them, build a stack so you can give yourself the best opportunity to take a tourney down..

    playing too many table sub-optimally is not going to be the best way forward, especially where the standard of play is going to be higher. Im not saying this is the case at all, but for your level you are losing a fair bit mate.. im sure it'll all turn around :)
  • edited October 2013
    Hey bud. A few bits from me.
    Having played 6 max for years on sky I'm hopeless at full ring now (strangely still pretty good live though, thank goodness).
    U can't under estimate the value of notes. On here I play the same games and have notes on everyone and that's often the difference between a call, raise or fold. For me u play a loose aggressive style, that maybe doesn't work quite so well on a 9 or 10 max table, I think position is much more important. I too can't make a profit on stars. Play tighter, look for good spots, not just flips. You may shove early position on here with a wide range of hands, full ring is a lot harder.
    Aren't there any 6 max games on there u can play?
    When I get variance I take a break, or play even tighter. I'd rather make a bad fold than a bad call.
    Not sure if any of this will help, but I wish you all the luck in the world..... u big fish!!!!!

    Adrian
  • edited October 2013
    I did the reverse to you and came from 8 and 10 seat tables to 6max.

    Took a while to adjust.

    In a 10 seat table you need 3 different ranges for starting hands early mid and late position and early should be uber tight compared to what you are used to.

    Also agree with earlier comments to play fewer tables and slightly lower stakes to get the feel for the games.
  • edited October 2013

    It was a carnival event but they had some with double and treble prizepools.



    In Response to Re: Have I just become a loosing player overnight????:
    In Response to Re: Have I just become a loosing player overnight???? : Nice 1 mate the carnival 1 ??? mine was a carnival but it wernt double !! vwp and yeh il keep that in mind.
    Posted by K8LOU
  • edited October 2013
    Did you ever get round to reading the small print of your staking deal which states you are responsible for your losses?
  • edited October 2013
    Im pretty sure I had the same offer K8...seems like anfew people from sky got an offer. I turned it down because I didnt want to be fully liable for my makeup and they wouldn't budge on that. There are positives though, like the coaching and other benefits.

    My advice would be to:
     -play smaller until you start to win and gain back some confidence. less chance of binking big, but more chance of not getting deep into makeup
     -make sure you book as much time in with their coaches as possible so they can help you find leaks in your game you cant spot yourself. Leakfinder wont tell you when a good spot to bluff was etc.

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