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The biggest part is how they play and are playing at the time on the table. SS just puts there play in a context, it does not tell you how they play.
It is available to everyone, things like HUD's aren't. I would say they are quite different. HUD give detailed infoon how someone players and their tendencies.
Where as SS is generic information on results. But I can understand fully why people would dislike sharkscope and feel it could give an unfair advantage.
Ienjoy playing poker on sky and 99% of players are very friendly so a few idiots dont put me off.
I normally only play low level deepstack tournaments and low level heads up to try and improve my game.
If you are available would yoube able to play the deepstack @ 2.20pm, as you are a winning player i think playing better players than me would improve my game.
Tikay is already registered.
All the best
Rainman397
In Response to Re: Thinking out loud - Sharkscope.:
This thread really is a credit to this Community, quite a contentious isue, & yet everybody is making their points in a fair manner, & seeing both sides of it. No debate is worthwhile, or will progress, unless we see both sides.
We ought to have more of these "awkward" debates in this spirit.
Ahh got a feeling........;)
Now then - and I'm defo not picking on you, or isolating you, but you said something there which as at the heart of it.
You 'scoped your Final Table, & it was "helpful". (To you....). Well we've all done that, or many of us have, & you've done nothing wrong.
Now move it up a level.
Have you gained an advantage over others by doing so? You suggested it was "helpful", so presumably, yes?
Sharkscope is not available to everyone, or more correctly, some folks can't afford, or don't wish, to subscribe.
Now turn it upside down. You can't afford, or don't want, to use Sharkscope, but your opponents do. Is that fair & proper, & would you feel OK about it?
Just putting it out there, not having a go at you in any way.
It seems to me to be similar to the "HUD's or not" debate really.
So it it gives back stats of a massive winner you can make assumption about there play, likewise if someone is a big loser.
Why did you feel the need to look on SS, to gain an advantage.
Quite honestly it's normal behaviour. If a friend is on a live FT table you may tell them players to watch out for or you may give them an heads up.
But the fact that these are available is not a good thing.
How would you like if they had all the data regarding your cash games. Do you think this should be make common knowledge. Do you think it would be good for online cash poker is this would be made available.
Sites must publish results somehwere so it can be mined, obviously sites do not publish cash game results.
The thing is why not and what is the differance.
Why does it have to be public knowledge regarding tournamnet placing but cash games do not get published.
I would hazard a guess and say the sites want to protect customers and maybe some data laws regarding player accounts.
But anyway, could you imagine if sites released cash game results!
OMG
When I started playing on the site it was only after a few months I discovered sharkscope (through someone discussing it in the chat box/ rhyming of every1s results)
I thought at the time, it was a bit bizarre these reults were public knowledge and why Sky pass this information on, I now of course know that's not the case, and they use software to garner the information from poker lobbies (that anyone can see).
After the 1st week I was never concerned about it, because it showed everyone's results.
When I said I found it helpful s/s the FT, it just confirmed my opinions on the players at the table. For example there was 1 player, who would limp in weak hands, 4/5x hands like 99s, 10s, and with monsters he 7xed it (at a FT when the blinds were massive!!) That was my "tell". S/s, and his results, just confirmed to me what was obvious from his results. Maybe interesting would have been a better word than helpful it certainly wouldn't alter how I played, or did play.
The thing I find most useful about s/s is tracking my own progress, that has been instrumental to me in helping to improve at the game.
I've never paid s/s a penny, I just use the free searches.
In todays world, it wouldn't bother me if sky could some how prevent sharkscope from getting sky results or not.
I have to say, though, that sharkscope don't really sell your information, they sell their services. As has been said, all the information they use is published independently of them. All they do is collate that and put it in a long-term perspective. I can't say there's anything wrong with taking publically accessible information and presenting it in a new way.
They also don't provide any private information. No personal details are used, only your poker alias and other information which you have made public yourself.
Whether scope is good for the game or not, I wouldn't like to say. It's certainly a potentially useful tool for any player hoping to improve. It does take some understanding of poker to make sense of the provided information, though, so naturally the better players benefit more. That doesn't preclude new players benefitting from it, though. We were all beginners once.
For instance if I "sat" into a £110 main event for a £3 all in sat then don't cash in the main event Sharkscope would report I had lost £110. Although I would of only lost £3.
It also does not show cash win/loss, only tournaments. So fluke into the main 6 times a year and never cash you've lost £18, anyone looking at your Sharkscope see's you've lost £660.
Your diary demonstrates your ability in a much better, more accurate and enjoyable way!
If Sharkscope was stopped "bum hunters" (excuse the terminology) would actually have to play proper poker to earn their living.
I've followed your progress on the site since you started in no way am I implying the terminology used earlier, applies to you!
But there are individuals on all sites who sit on heads up tables waiting for prey, if a recognised player turns up they decline.
It isn't entirely accurate, as many will know, in the way it displays rebuy profit/loss and (I think) bounty hunters. There are some very misleading scope graphs out there on the back of these.
it's good to know if that player is particularly good and therefore to be careful about
so in this case it disadvantages the better player
besides ss is flawed as others have said
my scope is 1000s below reality
i think i leave it up to fool peeps into thinking i'm more of a fish than i really am
i do not think it is in the same league as HUDs at all
as it is so blunt and inaccurate and gives no info on game play
so with all due respect to the OP or is that the old man
i'm just not that fussed
what i think is important is for peeps to know that sky does not "provide" the data direct for sharkie to use - they have to go get it
Tikay ?
I don't know which one it is, I'm asking ^^^
As an MTT specialist it's more of a luxury than an essential, I like having the info but I could easily do without it. Self analysis is one of it's main uses for me, as demonstrated in my recent BR challenge. It tells me nothing about how any particular opponent may play. My notes are much more useful for that. The most likely way it'll boost your profit is if you use it for table-selecting STTs, something I don't actually do that often.
I like having Sharkscope, though I'd happily sacrifice it if it were deemed bad for poker. While it remains available to everybody I'll continue to subscribe.
I hate it when I see chatbox abusers quoting Sharkscope stats. That's its biggest negative as far as I'm concerned.
If Sky bring in an opt-in policy like other sites I'd be cool with that. I'd opt in so I can continue to self analyze. Not sure if I'd still subscribe, it would depend how many others opt in.
"What counts as an Heads Up Game?
For the purposes of the leaderboards a heads up game is any game with less than 5 entrants."
Interesting
Why don't they just put 2 players then? lol
How much would it cost me/us for you to unlock your stats for an hour 1 day???