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A sick conclusion to Tuesdays main!
Disconned in a turbo.
Ouch.
Comments
I would definiately be blind stealing also, unless I knew the player really well that is.
Would do the same myself and would expect no less from anyone else
If someone has disconnected it will give like 3 mins or so to allow them the chance to re-connect. If they still have not reconnected then it will jsut sit them out until they arrive back and the game will continue. In a HU situation they should actually increase this to 5-10 mins depending on buy in etc in my opinion as that's when the most money is up for play.
For cash game it works I think whereby a player will have like 1 disconnection protection every 3 hrs or so ( I might be wrong with the duration for cash)
This comes up every so often. I have very strong feelings on the matter. I have been in the spot of the connected person on three occasions on this site HU at the end of a MTT. Each time I gave them time to return and they did, one had repeated disconnections and I just sat out and waited each time. A thread was made on at least one of the occasions, maybe two but it was a while ago now. If anyone feels moved to search for them feel free, if not you'll just have to take my word for it.
All the times before when this sort of thread has come up I have said I do not condemn the people who hammer the bet button. That it is there choice and I can understand why they do that. In truth while I do understand it, I was merely holding my tongue. I utterly condemn it. It is base. It is classless. It is without honour. It is the wolf of cowardly greed dressed in the guise of 'That's poker, he would do it to me etc etc.'
I'm sure we will get the usual standard replies. That the other person would do the same to us. That we have bills to pay, pros have families to provide for, everyone is feeling the pinch right now and so on and so forth. I just have one question in reply to that.
Are we not better than that?
Someone has to blink first and trust first. If I was disconnected I would hope I would receive the same actions which I have given. It has happened to me, in the past the vast majority of times they have smashed the bet button (mainly on another huge site). Maybe I have this attitude because my father taught me the game and many games from a very old school angle. I don't know, maybe it's because I read the Lord of the Rings Trilogy when I was eleven. It doesn't matter. I just have hope in people that they can drag themselves above the pigswill of base greed. Now you may say that the whole point of the game is to win money from another and of course you will be right. It's a game based on wits and hoodwinking. However there is a strong code of honour at the very heart of it. All is fair in terms of deception 'on the field' but an act of cheating is seen as dishonourable and completely abhorrent. At least it was when I was taught the game.
Yes that all sounds utterly pompous I admit it. But that is how I feel. When it happens again I will allow the person a generous amount of leave to return while clicking the sat out button. And when it's the other way around and I get my blinds stolen away, my former position still will not change.
I used to feel exactly the same but i lost count of how many times it happened to me over the years only to reconnect and see all of my stack gone.
In all honesty that was on a site where i might only ever see the odd same face every few days because there were so many players on it and i can honestly say that if it were to happen on here v players i mostly see everyday i would take your approach to it (and would hope to get the same courtesy in return from players who new me.)
But v a new face and someone who i had never seen before i would give them the time for their first blind to reconnect then wait no more because thats exactly what i would expect if the tables were turned.
Your right though mate the whole thing leaves a bitter taste no matter what and its just one of those things all online players have to deal with one way or another over time.
I might just have fallen in love with TommyD.
Tommy - are you spoken for?
You & me, how about it? We could have babies, & everything.
I 2nd Tommy’s comments here, playing many hu, when in need of toilet break, I would say a need loo break, most of time players do sit out until I say I am back, this is not always the case though 9as i would and do if player needed loo break), if a player sits out for more than 5mins, then I do hit bet button, I allow 5mins for a player to sit back on table, as I feel this is enough time to re-boot modem/computer.
With a lot of different internet provider's out there, there will always be problems when running deep in a long mtt; I found this out myself when playing last night, after being disconnected for 35mins. (Internet provider's provide NO help with this too lol)
With many of us relying on the wonders of the internet, this issue will always be there for all of us at some point, how you want to play it tho is down to individual players.
Gl all at the tables.
Very impressed by the guys who said they would wait until the other player is back, extremely noble! Kind of restores my faith in humanity somewhat :-) Would be curious to ask those players what their bankroll is though, would winning say a MTT make a massive difference to your bankroll?
Nice post Tommy totally agree with your stance on this
(just wish I could get heads up now and then lol)
I agree with Jac - 5 minutes then I'd go for it.
I know it's a slightly different situation but in DYM's, as I'm sure many of you are aware, away players are treated ruthlessly I've seen 4k stacks blinded away by the other smaller stacks and I'd expect that any opponent in HU situation would act in a similar manner (9 times out of 10?!).
Hard not to admire TommyD's stance on the subject though but I'd just be lying if I said I would quite as honourable.
On another note you'd also pick up the award for best Alan Partridge impression with the line "I don't know, maybe it's because I read the Lord of the Rings Trilogy when I was eleven." ☺
I think they are both equally rewarding
But you can't spend Kudos down the pub
If anyone ever finds a pub that accepts Kudos then drinks are on Tommy
BUT assuming all did agree (let's assume non-verbally, you just knew everyone was nice enough to do it and everyone was just folding) do we join in too? Is it any different because DYMs are 'ten a penny' so to speak whereas getting to a FT in an MTT with 500+ runners is not the kinda thing that happens every day or every week or for some even every month. So is it more about taking away someone's 'one time' that ay not come along often whereas the next DYM bubble is always (usually) 10 mins away or whatever.
For myself i think that everyone is looking at this from the wrong angle when passing comment.
I dont think the issue here is about whether or not you steal the blinds but how you would react if you were the disconnected player. The thing is to be consistent to both and not behave in a hypocritical way.
If you would be upset or think it unfair if your blinds were stolen whilst disconnected then you really shouldnt be stealing when the reverse happens.
But if you are of the opinion that if you are disconnected then your blinds are there to be stolen then i see no problem in stealing when the tables are turned.
It is all about consistency and applying the same rules to yourself as to others.
What i would do in this circumstance is between me and my conscience.
But i will not stand in judgement over someones actions in a situation. Unless of course they turn out to be one who is happy to steal and whinges when stolen from. People are free to take any stance they like and unless theybehave with hypocrisy then it is fine by me.
Awful timing, a very unpleasant way to have to finish a 1,116 runner Main Event.
Connection issues are part of the variance you face when playing online poker in my eyes. Sometimes it will happen to me, sometimes it will happen to my opponents. At what stage of the game it occurs and whether my opponent chooses to steal or wait is all down to luck. It's a zero sum situation at the end of the day.
Funnily enough I don't think I've ever had to make the decision, as far as I can recall all my 152 MTT wins on Sky were settled with both players connected.
As was documented in my diary at the time I got disconnected when a big chipleader at final table in a £5.75 Bounty Hunter a while back. I watched on the rail (unable to take my seat) while the other players passed chips backward and forward for over 40 minutes until my stack eventually blinded out in 4th place. The win would have meant a lot to my BR challenge at the time. I just shrugged it off and moved on. What else can you do? No point dwelling on it.
The vast majority of disconnections are fixed within minutes, usually by rebooting a router. My statements regard 'acting dishonourably' were concerning two people are HU at the end of a MTT, or in a HU MTT. Suddenly one player has the red bar of doom pop up and then the other player starts mashing 'bet.' The disconnected player returns in 2-3 minutes with their stack decimated. Now I didn't rail the table Tuesday so I don't know if this player was disconnected during HU or prior to it so it is not a direct attack on the other players involved, however the instance I am referring to is the one which gets the most threads about it and is at the heart of everyone's 'what would you do?'
If it is 3 or 4 handed and a player red bars I generally tell the table 'I will be playing slow to allow XXX to return.' I'm not colluding, I'm not twisting anyone's arm, but in general on this site most other people slow down as well and then the fellow pops back.
On the question of time to give someone leave to return, HU I will always give them at least a level from the time of disconnection. I think a good rule of thumb is to give them the reasonable amount of time in which they would continue to attempt to get back on. So say in the £22 7pm BHer I'd give a level and a bit, if they don't get on in that time it pretty much means they aren't coming back. Either it's a serious issue or they think they have been blinded out already so are not bothering. If we look at the VLV Final I won, if the runner up in that had disconnected I would have given 30 minutes at least, because in that I can see a player trying everything to get back online including ringing nearby friends and asking to use their computer. People just wouldn't do that in a smaller comp. It's about judgement and using common sense to go alongside the decency.
For instance I remember a £22 BHer I played once. It was 4 paid IIRC and one fellow was disconnected from the very start of the FT. Somehow he ended up HU with me after an hour or so of FT action. Even in this instance with a 150bb:3BB lead I sat out for a couple of hands and asked Nutter (who was railing after being knocked out in 3rd in a AA v KK spot) to confirm if he was disconnected from the start and if he thought he was coming back. After confirmation of opinion I did blind the guy out because he was never going to come back and had been red barred for over an hour.
It about judging the situation as it comes up. The vast majority of cases though in HU play are people losing connection for a couple of minutes and I stand by my description of mashing the bet button in these spots as being 'dishonourable.' In fact rather than feeling that word is too strong, I don't think it's strong enough.
A few other points:
Disconnect protect is open for all sorts of abuse in Tournaments. We still have people timebanking during H4H, if the was DP in MTTs it would be carnage around the bubble, FT bubble and some of the ladders.
One last bug bear. The phrase is 'Do onto others as you would have them do onto you' not what it seems to have become 'Do onto others what they would do onto you.' Massive difference.
And no Tikay, we couldn't have babies. Nice offer though
If you are a recreational player then this shouldn't matter, your are playing for the fun, enjoying the wins and taking the loses on the chin. Unless your financial situation is dire in which case why are you using much needed cash to play poker?
If you are a Pro and you can't give someone five minutes at the very least to get back on because this will effect your win rate and bottom line too much, please seek another profession immediately. You are clearly just not good enough at this one.