A sick conclusion to Tuesdays main!

IDONKCALLU

whenever i play heads up and they get dissconected i always wait for them to come back i feel guilty otherwise

rancid

In Response to Re: A sick conclusion to Tuesdays main!:

I feel in light of Jac's post and others I should qualify a few of my statements. The vast majority of disconnections are fixed within minutes, usually by rebooting a router.  My statements regard 'acting dishonourably' were concerning two people are HU at the end of a MTT, or in a HU MTT.  Suddenly one player has the red bar of doom pop up and then the other player starts mashing 'bet.'  The disconnected player returns in 2-3 minutes with their stack decimated.  Now I didn't rail the table Tuesday so I don't know if this player was disconnected during HU or prior to it so it is not a direct attack on the other players involved, however the instance I am referring to is the one which gets the most threads about it and is at the heart of everyone's 'what would you do?' If it is 3 or 4 handed and a player red bars I generally tell the table 'I will be playing slow to allow XXX to return.'  I'm not colluding, I'm not twisting anyone's arm, but in general on this site most other people slow down as well and then the fellow pops back. On the question of time to give someone leave to return, HU I will always give them at least a level from the time of disconnection.  I think a good rule of thumb is to give them the reasonable amount of time in which they would continue to attempt to get back on.  So say in the £22 7pm BHer I'd give a level and a bit, if they don't get on in that time it pretty much means they aren't coming back.  Either it's a serious issue or they think they have been blinded out already so are not bothering.  If we look at the VLV Final I won, if the runner up in that had disconnected I would have given 30 minutes at least, because in that I can see a player trying everything to get back online including ringing nearby friends and asking to use their computer.  People just wouldn't do that in a smaller comp.  It's about judgement and using common sense to go alongside the decency. For instance I remember a £22 BHer I played once.  It was 4 paid IIRC and one fellow was disconnected from the very start of the FT.  Somehow he ended up HU with me after an hour or so of FT action.  Even in this instance with a 150bb:3BB lead I sat out for a couple of hands and asked Nutter (who was railing after being knocked out in 3rd in a AA v KK spot) to confirm if he was disconnected from the start and if he thought he was coming back.  After confirmation of opinion I did blind the guy out because he was never going to come back and had been red barred for over an hour. It about judging the situation as it comes up.  The vast majority of cases though in HU play are people losing connection for a couple of minutes and I stand by my description of mashing the bet button in these spots as being 'dishonourable.'  In fact rather than feeling that word is too strong, I don't think it's strong enough. A few other points: Disconnect protect is open for all sorts of abuse in Tournaments.  We still have people timebanking during H4H, if the was DP in MTTs it would be carnage around the bubble, FT bubble and some of the ladders. One last bug bear.  The phrase is 'Do onto others as you would have them do onto you' not what it seems to have become 'Do onto others what they would do onto you.'  Massive difference. And no Tikay, we couldn't have babies.  Nice offer though
Posted by TommyD

You can't really argue against Tommy

Talk to someone how you would like them to talk to you, same same............

I think in the world of cut throat poker where your constantly at battle with other people at the tables.
It's only natural for people to act this way when it comes to people being disconnected cause poker is destory the weak.
Eat the fish or be eaten.
So you can see why this spills over to spots where people have disconnected and they feel like hahaha tough, I win hahahahaha.

spot 1.....

Walking down the road to a football match, loads of people around and this guy in front of you drops his wallet and doesn't notice. You quickly pick it up, but do you.........

a. give it back
b. slide it into your pocket

spot 2....


You walk into a shop and buy 20 cigs, you hand over a tenner.
The poor young lady gives you change for a fifty, do you...

a. say o you gave me too much money
b. pocket it, say nothing and walk very fast out of shop



life is full of spots like this..........

spot 3

Your playing HU with Matt Bates at the end of a MTT and it's winner takes all - £12,000.
Matt Bates has only got Tiscala broadband so he obviously disconnects and you have 4-1 chip lead do you.....

a. think o it's Matt what a wally, lets smash the bet button
b o it's Matt he wins enough, smash the bet button
c. o it's Matt, I think he is a lucky so so - so hahahaha for being unlucky and smash the bet button
d. o good it's Matt, my BR is £400 and I need this more than him - smash bet button
e.  it's Matt, lets wait for that smashing fellow to re connect cause he would do the same

GELDY

In Response to Re: A sick conclusion to Tuesdays main!:

In Response to Re: A sick conclusion to Tuesdays main! : You can't really argue against Tommy Talk to someone how you would like them to talk to you, same same............ I think in the world of cut throat poker where your constantly at battle with other people at the tables. It's only natural for people to act this way when it comes to people being disconnected cause poker is destory the weak. Eat the fish or be eaten. So you can see why this spills over to spots where people have disconnected and they feel like hahaha tough, I win hahahahaha. spot 1..... Walking down the road to a football match, loads of people around and this guy in front of you drops his wallet and doesn't notice. You quickly pick it up, but do you......... a. give it back b. slide it into your pocket spot 2.... You walk into a shop and buy 20 cigs, you hand over a tenner. The poor young lady gives you change for a fifty, do you... a. say o you gave me too much money b. pocket it, say nothing and walk very fast out of shop life is full of spots like this.......... spot 3 Your playing HU with Matt Bates at the end of a MTT and it's winner takes all - £12,000. Matt Bates has only got Tiscala broadband so he obviously disconnects and you have 4-1 chip lead do you..... a. think o it's Matt what a wally, lets smash the bet button b o it's Matt he wins enough, smash the bet button c. o it's Matt, I think he is a lucky so so - so hahahaha for being unlucky and smash the bet button d. o good it's Matt, my BR is £400 and I need this more than him - smash bet button e.  it's Matt, lets wait for that smashing fellow to re connect cause he would do the same
Posted by rancid

#confused

you start your post with a very clear statement as to the dog eat dog nature of online poker

but then your spots seem ridiculous
#1 and #2 are just theft
#3 is Matt Bates. conveniently just as his tiscali connection fails a sky broadband salesman arrives with a live demo.

Slipwater

We really should all take the high road, as Tommy has detailed. That's one of the things that separates us from the animals of this world.

Unfortunately, the majority of the population is greedy. We say we're not - we genuinely believe we're not - but throw us in that situation and it can be frightening how the lure of the green changes (otherwise) decent people, with a (usually) high moral code.

Good words, Tommy. Maybe one day the world will spin that way.

Wilhelm

“Morality is neither rational nor absolute nor natural. World has known many moral systems, each of which advances claims universality; all moral systems are therefore particular, serving a specific purpose for their propagators or creators, and enforcing a certain regime that disciplines human beings for social life by narrowing our perspectives and limiting our horizons.”

Friedrich Nietzsche

DoubleAAA

I agree whole-heartedly with what Tommy has said but if I was in that situation and I did not know the player well, then I would also be bashing at the bet button. Why?  Because just like in poker, we adjust to situations and in the world that we live in 9/10 people would be smashing hell out of that bet button to get that extra money, so therefore I would do the same.

Regarding Rancids examples, so far this year I have witnessed a girl drop her iPhone5 in a club without realising and go over to her and hand it back to her.  Also, whilst on holiday in Turkey earlier this year a shop keeper gave me too much change (only equivilent of something like £5) but I did not realise this until I got back to the apartment, so the next day I went back to give the money back.  He spoke little english and could not understand why I was giving him this money, someone  who could speak english explained and he was so happy. 

I like to consider myself a man of good morales however, in this situation, they're not going to wait for me to re-connect so therefore neither am I.

Sky_Dave

In Response to Re: A sick conclusion to Tuesdays main!:
“Morality is neither rational nor absolute nor natural. World has known many moral systems, each of which advances claims universality; all moral systems are therefore particular, serving a specific purpose for their propagators or creators, and enforcing a certain regime that disciplines human beings for social life by narrowing our perspectives and limiting our horizons.” Friedrich Nietzsche
Posted by Wilhelm

So Freddy basically takes the blinds, right?

Slipwater

In Response to Re: A sick conclusion to Tuesdays main!:

In Response to Re: A sick conclusion to Tuesdays main! : So Freddy basically takes the blinds, right?
Posted by Sky_Dave

Haha - very good

Wilhelm

In Response to Re: A sick conclusion to Tuesdays main!:

In Response to Re: A sick conclusion to Tuesdays main! : So Freddy basically takes the blinds, right?
Posted by Sky_Dave

If he were still around he might, but it should be noted he died from syphilis.

GELDY

In Response to Re: A sick conclusion to Tuesdays main!:

In Response to Re: A sick conclusion to Tuesdays main! : So Freddy basically takes the blinds, right?
Posted by Sky_Dave

not sure he is a good example to follow

"God is dead" says Nietzsche, followed a while later by
"Nietzsche is dead" says God

Sky_Dave

In Response to Re: A sick conclusion to Tuesdays main!:

In Response to Re: A sick conclusion to Tuesdays main! : If he were still around he might, but it should be noted he died from syphilis.
Posted by Wilhelm

Ouch.

GELDY

"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you"

That's my favourite Nietzsche quote

and would seem to be quite apt here

No chance of Tommy becoming a monster

But a question the rest of us may need to ask

squilfy

Hi 

My internet is still up the creek ( ironically sky broadband LoL ) might not have won the heads up 

Still fairly amusing watching the last of my 2 million chips get swallowed up on channel 861 and me sitting forlorn on the sofa 

I would never been able to reconnect unless i remembered to use my phone as my broadband connection but after ten tins of stella that did not cross my mind LoL 

Coming runner up is still great and a good pay day even better when sateliting in for 60p on the sixth attempt 

Good luck to the winner and i am more diaspointed that i did not get to play the heads up regardless if i won or lost  

It was the intenet connection!!! that was more annoying 

Cheers everybody ( First time i been a topic on a thread LoL)

Ce La Vie

kidwiz10

People might seem like savages eg and fairplay to tommy for bein the person he is but were on this site to make money at the end of the day.

I know this might come out as bad from my point of view but lastnights difference was around £1,200 between 1st and 2nd now alot of ppl are saying they would give them time eg i can honestly say i wouldnt beleave this.

Most the time the opponent is gunna be someone you dont know you might feel a bit bad for them for a few days but giving an "unkown" a chance when youve been gifted such a rare lucky opportunity would just be stupid!.

Wether your here to make money as a living or just playing for fun with the chance of a big cash which could help you out alot i wouldnt think twice if i was put in the position of the person lastnight im here to make money like alot of players are most ppl are friends through the site but not actually in real life (like myself). unless it was a friend who i know in person i wouldnt let up.

This might come across as selfish , greedy,  ruthless , but in all honest it doesnt both me as yea i would expect it done to me in a heartbeat and if in that position for £1200!! others who say "give him time" is just down right a lie and wouldnt think twice them selves.

Just like in DYMS when your in SB and the away player is in the BB youve already pressed "raise" soon as the player before you has folded ,so not much difference between a 6 way small profit dym to a big help and return of a MTT score money makes a difference especially when its for a substantial amount.

Lambert180

Very well played squilfy and unlucky on missing out on playing the HU, win or lose.

rancid

In Response to Re: A sick conclusion to Tuesdays main!:

In Response to Re: A sick conclusion to Tuesdays main! : #confused you start your post with a very clear statement as to the dog eat dog nature of online poker but then your spots seem ridiculous #1 and #2 are just theft #3 is Matt Bates. conveniently just as his tiscali connection fails a sky broadband salesman arrives with a live demo.
Posted by GELDY

omg it ain't theft - something is 9 tenths of the law or something something

but u see the Sky salesman would be so bad that he could not reconnect straight away cause it's sky and they take at least 48 hrs for activation. It don't matter cause my man outside would slit the saleman throat for a small fee anyway, so what you saying!

o my also I don't want to be a monster!

eportlad91

In Response to Re: A sick conclusion to Tuesdays main!:

Very well played squilfy and unlucky on missing out on playing the HU, win or lose.
Posted by Lambert180

I've gotta say i agree with lambert and kidwiz10... if the person i knew was a fellow reg, and i knew them and also knew they would do the same for me then yes i would sit out.

The likes of tommy being the total gent that he is i would insta sit out, but tax him 5bbs for wasting my time during this sitout as time is money (only joking tommy) ... but what youve gotta take into account is would this person do the same for you ? ... as i reckon 90% of people would do their best to blind you out as quick as they can, at the end of the day there is alot of money at stake and i can't realy say i blame them to be honest.

The question at the time of this happening is would the person do the same for you? ...all depends on the person i suppose. 

a00rock

In Response to Re: A sick conclusion to Tuesdays main!:

Hi  My internet is still up the creek ( ironically sky broadband LoL ) might not have won the heads up  Still fairly amusing watching the last of my 2 million chips get swallowed up on channel 861 and me sitting forlorn on the sofa  I would never been able to reconnect unless i remembered to use my phone as my broadband connection but after ten tins of stella that did not cross my mind LoL  Coming runner up is still great and a good pay day even better when sateliting in for 60p on the sixth attempt  Good luck to the winner and i am more diaspointed that i did not get to play the heads up regardless if i won or lost   It was the intenet connection!!! that was more annoying  Cheers everybody ( First time i been a topic on a thread LoL) Ce La Vie
Posted by squilfy

Fair play to ya mate I felt sick watchin it so I cant imagine how you was feeling at the time. With your game and mindset I am sure it wont be long before you are heads up again gl on the tables.

eportlad91

In Response to Re: A sick conclusion to Tuesdays main!:

Hi  My internet is still up the creek ( ironically sky broadband LoL ) might not have won the heads up  Still fairly amusing watching the last of my 2 million chips get swallowed up on channel 861 and me sitting forlorn on the sofa  I would never been able to reconnect unless i remembered to use my phone as my broadband connection but after ten tins of stella that did not cross my mind LoL  Coming runner up is still great and a good pay day even better when sateliting in for 60p on the sixth attempt  Good luck to the winner and i am more diaspointed that i did not get to play the heads up regardless if i won or lost   It was the intenet connection!!! that was more annoying  Cheers everybody ( First time i been a topic on a thread LoL) Ce La Vie
Posted by squilfy

who was the heads up against squify ? would be nice to hear his views i suppose.

rancid

In Response to Re: A sick conclusion to Tuesdays main!:

In Response to Re: A sick conclusion to Tuesdays main! : who was the heads up against squify ? would be nice to hear his views i suppose.
Posted by eportlad91

HU v Matt Bates - some people huh!



jokes it was Lambert180 - ruthless poker player !














OMG all jokes in here tonight

unknown_username

In Response to Re: A sick conclusion to tonights main!:

This comes up every so often.  I have very strong feelings on the matter.  I have been in the spot of the connected person on three occasions on this site HU at the end of a MTT.  Each time I gave them time to return and they did, one had repeated disconnections and I just sat out and waited each time.  A thread was made on at least one of the occasions, maybe two but it was a while ago now.  If anyone feels moved to search for them feel free, if not you'll just have to take my word for it. All the times before when this sort of thread has come up I have said I do not condemn the people who hammer the bet button.  That it is there choice and I can understand why they do that.  In truth while I do understand it, I was merely holding my tongue.  I utterly condemn it.  It is base.  It is classless.  It is without honour.  It is the wolf of cowardly greed dressed in the guise of 'That's poker, he would do it to me etc etc.' I'm sure we will get the usual standard replies.  That the other person would do the same to us.  That we have bills to pay, pros have families to provide for, everyone is feeling the pinch right now and so on and so forth.  I just have one question in reply to that. Are we not better than that? Someone has to blink first and trust first.  If I was disconnected I would hope I would receive the same actions which I have given.  It has happened to me, in the past the vast majority of times they have smashed the bet button (mainly on another huge site).  Maybe I have this attitude because my father taught me the game and many games from a very old school angle.  I don't know, maybe it's because I read the Lord of the Rings Trilogy when I was eleven.  It doesn't matter.  I just have hope in people that they can drag themselves above the pigswill of base greed.  Now you may say that the whole point of the game is to win money from another and of course you will be right.  It's a game based on wits and hoodwinking.  However there is a strong code of honour at the very heart of it.  All is fair in terms of deception 'on the field' but an act of cheating is seen as dishonourable and completely abhorrent.  At least it was when I was taught the game. Yes that all sounds utterly pompous I admit it.  But that is how I feel.  When it happens again I will allow the person a generous amount of leave to return while clicking the sat out button.  And when it's the other way around and I get my blinds stolen away, my former position still will not change.
Posted by TommyD

I used to play cricket to a high standard. I was fortunate to be coached by Herbert Sutcliffe, Peter Sainsbury, Andy Roberts, Lloyd Budd, Raj Maru and many others. I was always taught that the integrity of the game, was more important than results! I always walked if I knew I'd snicked the ball and hardly ever appealed for LBW's.

Today the game has changed, hardly any cricketers walk and it appears that appeals by the fielding side are well rehearsed before the game.

Just like many recently, i've bubbled satellites recently through disconnections. 

Customer care respond by explaining the problems are at my end, I should delete my cookies and the world will be a better place! Even though other sites are unaffected when the problems occur.

I used to tilt, curse and wind myself up as my chip stacks disappeared and I was powerless to prevent it!

but now I just factor it into my game.

The pleasure I get running deep into a tournament far outweighs the 5% of times I miss out through disconnection problems.

Respect to you TommyD! its refreshing to know that for you, the game is more important than the money!!

Curt360x27

lolz at how the winner is gonna feel reading this!

Although everyone has there own opinion on what a player should do in a situation like this I don't think the player in question should feel any guilt or any shame in stealing his opponents blinds and in a way this thread is starting to take the shine of what was a great achievement in beating the biggest field ever in a SKY tournament. 

F_Ivanovic

OK there are lots of things in this thread that I agree with and I can see both sides in the matter. I myself have been on the revieving end of this recently whereby I held a big chip advantage HU and then got disconnected and lost a good portion of my stack. In the same tournament (less than a week later) I was almost on the opposite end where the opponent suddenly went away - I timed down in the SB and thankfully the opponent came straight back meaning I didn't have to face any tough decisions. Knowing that it cost me a week earlier it would have been really hard to resist raising at all.

Another factor that has not been mentioned though is percieved skill advantage. If we think we have a big edge over our opponent - who then disconnects - we, in turn are being disadvantaged if we choose to wait. 25-30bbs we might have a big edge but if blinds go up one/two times and we're now suddenly down to 15bb's each or less then our skill advantage is going to be hugely diminished. (or even worse if villain is really good at this stack depth HU but we are less adept) So what do we do, do we steal the blinds every 2/3 mins (to account for our skill advantage?) How do we know what is the right amount?

IMO disconnection protection is a must and should at least be implemented for HU scenarios first and foremost (and then in cash games where we have a significant % invested)

YOYOY

In Response to Re: A sick conclusion to Tuesdays main!:

"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you" That's my favourite Nietzsche quote and would seem to be quite apt here No chance of Tommy becoming a monster But a question the rest of us may need to ask
Posted by GELDY

But he also said this which is probably the most apt.

You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.

YOYOY

And i think he also said;

That which does not kill us makes us stronger.

In fact he just never shut up!

Wilhelm

In Response to Re: A sick conclusion to Tuesdays main!:

And i think he also said; That which does not kill us makes us stronger. In fact he just never shut up!
Posted by YOYOY

Shame we never got to see what strenght the syphilis would have given him.

YOYOY

In Response to Re: A sick conclusion to Tuesdays main!:

In Response to Re: A sick conclusion to Tuesdays main! : Shame we never got to see what strenght the syphilis would have given him.
Posted by Wilhelm

Probably as strong as the hulk, and possibly as green!

TommyD

The legend goes old Freddie injected himself with the syphilis.  He's a very interesting historical figure to study.

YOYOY

In Response to Re: A sick conclusion to Tuesdays main!:

The legend goes old Freddie injected himself with the syphilis.  He's a very interesting historical figure to study.
Posted by TommyD

He certainly is Tommy.

He would have made the perfect replacement for James Hartigan!  

tomgoodun

In Response to Re: A sick conclusion to Tuesdays main!:

The legend goes old Freddie injected himself with the syphilis.  He's a very interesting historical figure to study.
Posted by TommyD

Tommy you have restored my faith in humanity with your earlier post on disconnection and how you deal with it in heads up situations.To be honest I have been in both positions and have auto raised when oppo was away,in my defence I only play small stakes but as folk have rightly pointed out it doesn't matter what monies are involved as it is the principle of the matter and the integrity of the game. Coincidentally the day after reading this thread I was playing a satellite to a big tourney and got down to the last two with mattbates who then had connection issues,(I kid you not) I told him I would give him time to re connect which he did and good old poker gods rewarded me with a win,(bubbled the tourney though,doh)l,hope you run good at the tables as the good guys deserve it IMO.