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Dym question what is the right play????

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  • FCHDFCHD
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: Dym question what is the right play????:
    In Response to Re: Dym question what is the right play???? : We're only calling 6.5bbs.  We're around 63% vs players range and we still have enough chips for Fold Equity if we lose.  As I stated earlier, it really is dependant upon the table dynamics etc.
    Posted by DoubleAAA
    Yes, but we *have* 13BB. That's the sort of stack I'd be quite happily sitting quiet and not getting involved calling  with.
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  • DoubleAAADoubleAAA
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: Dym question what is the right play????:
    In Response to Re: Dym question what is the right play???? : Yes, but we *have* 13BB. That's the sort of stack I'd be quite happily sitting quiet and not getting involved calling  with.
    Posted by FCHD
    Problem with that being we can easily be dragged back into the frame.  The table dynamics are so important, lot's of missing information to be able to give a nailed on answer.  We need to know how loose villain is, how nitty the blinds are when we have btn, how tight the bb is when we're in the sb.  How often does the btn shove when we're in sb to allow us the opportunity to shove on the bb etc.  Like I said, we really need to know the dynamics.
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  • gerardirlgerardirl
    edited January 2014
    I would call. If your a dym regular your not only thinking about this game but future games. If your gonna fold the likes of ak then your gonna fold alot of hands which gives you a soft image. Regs will pick up on this and will target you which you want to avoid.

    So I would call because you have a strong chance of winning and they and the other players playing will think twice about shoving on you with rags in future games.

    Of course it depends on the history of the person shoving ....if it is a rare thing v they shoved alot!

    Ger
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  • chicknMeltchicknMelt
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: Dym question what is the right play????:
    I would call. If your a dym regular your not only thinking about this game but future games. If your gonna fold the likes of ak then your gonna fold alot of hands which gives you a soft image. Regs will pick up on this and will target you which you want to avoid. So I would call because you have a strong chance of winning and they and the other players playing will think twice about shoving on you with rags in future games. Of course it depends on the history of the person shoving ....if it is a rare thing v they shoved alot! Ger
    Posted by gerardirl
    I can see where you are coming from- u don't want to be having a nitty I image or u will get targeted, yes. But calling in spots u should fold isn't the way to prevent that happening imo. Know one knows u are folding AK. If u start to get targeted, then the villains range is alot wider than a normal shoving range, so your calling range should be too...simples. You should only be adapting your play from the most optimal play when ur opponents give you a very good reason to, not before. 


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  • IDONKCALLUIDONKCALLU
    edited January 2014
    yes tikay agree good to shove with marginal hands    then it is to call ;)
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  • IDONKCALLUIDONKCALLU
    edited January 2014
    wheres john connor he tell me if its right or not ;)
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  • Tikay10Tikay10
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: Dym question what is the right play????:
    In Response to Re: Dym question what is the right play???? : Yes, but we *have* 13BB. That's the sort of stack I'd be quite happily sitting quiet and not getting involved calling  with.
    Posted by FCHD
    We can't really argue with the ICM chaps, the maths are the maths, but if we all played strict ICM, I'm not sure where our edge comes from.

    There is much to be said for thinking for ourselves, & not being afraid to plough our own lonely furrow, & this is one of those situations where I think stack-scanning is much under-rated. Who wants to go to war when we have no need?

    OK, if we blind down to, say, 5 or 6 Bigs, fine, easy call, but that is 3 or 4 orbits away - 16 hands - & we all know that within that period, there is every chance that one of the others will do the work for us, & exit stage left.

    It's all very table & oppo specific, but in a vacuum - ooh, the kids say that! - I'm folding here.          
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  • chicknMeltchicknMelt
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: Dym question what is the right play????:
    In Response to Re: Dym question what is the right play???? : We can't really argue with the ICM chaps, the maths are the maths, but if we all played strict ICM, I'm not sure where our edge comes from. There is much to be said for thinking for ourselves, & not being afraid to plough our own lonely furrow, & this is one of those situations where I think stack-scanning is much under-rated. Who wants to go to war when we have no need? OK, if we blind down to, say, 5 or 6 Bigs, fine, easy call, but that is 3 or 4 orbits away - 16 hands - & we all know that within that period, there is every chance that one of the others will do the work for us, & exit stage left. It's all very table & oppo specific, but in a vacuum - ooh, the kids say that! - I'm folding here.      
    Posted by Tikay10
    Re edge if we all played strict ICM:ICM isn't the be all and end all - there are lots of unknowns that ICM doesn't calculate. For example, estimating someone's shoving range, allowing for what happens after the current hand, your edge or lack of over other players. One of these factors could easily change the optimal move away from what ICM says you should do.

    For example, you may decide to shove in a spot that is slightly -ev in the view of ICM, but ICM doesn't consider that getting this shove through would elevate you to the big stack on the bubble, allowing you to put extra pressure on the other players, giving you a huge advantage in the final phases of the DYM, which may well more than make up for the loss of ev in the shoving hand.
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  • rancidrancid
    edited January 2014
    In Response to Re: Dym question what is the right play????:

    to give you an idea of how wide the villain would need to be shoving to make the call profitable (58.5% equity) - the villains range would need to be:

    AA-22, AK-A9, KQ, KJ, QJ.

    Posted by chicknMelt

    this^  think it's dam close - fold is best i think


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  • gerardirlgerardirl
    edited January 2014
    Just to clarify as I misread the question (thinking you were the bb). If you are the bb and two others fold you should call imo. If you not the bb then you fold.

    Oh and nevermind Johnconnor my dym roi is 3 times his! lol

    Ger
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