How do these donks keep winning?

kirstii

leroy14	Small blind		£0.20	£0.20	£8.20
carpinon	Big blind		£0.40	£0.60	£82.40
	Your hole cards	A K
law648110	Call		£0.40	£1.00	£31.38
RESON8	Call		£0.40	£1.40	£22.74
tgsbowling	Call		£0.40	£1.80	£52.34
kirstii	Raise		£2.40	£4.20	£19.79
leroy14	Fold
carpinon	Call		£2.00	£6.20	£80.40
law648110	Fold
RESON8	All-in		£22.74	£28.94	£0.00
tgsbowling	Fold
kirstii	All-in		£19.79	£48.73	£0.00
carpinon	Fold
RESON8	Unmatched bet		£0.95	£47.78	£0.95
RESON8	Show	10 2
kirstii	Show	A K
Flop
		3 Q 2
Turn
		2
River
		J
RESON8	Win	Three 2s	£45.98		£46.93

He won 3 of these joke hands in a row, unreal!

scrumdown

i know its a bad call but hes hit the flop low pair thats all they need cause they not fold  u not hit gone all in bad play by u you only had  ace high

kirstii

it was all in pre flop!!!! Lol

lynx3ffect

cant do anything about it, you could make your pf raise slightly higher to 2.8/3 but as played over time you'll be a winner ...just gotta suck those ones up!

phil12uk

In Response to Re: How do these donks keep winning?:

i know its a bad call but hes hit the flop low pair thats all they need cause they not fold  u not hit gone all in bad play by u you only had  ace high
Posted by scrumdown

Scrumdown - u do realise that the Poster's freeroll has now finished don't u?  You now don't have to keep posting in every single thread with an inane comment just for the sake of it!!!

Kirstii - I'm guessing the 6x raise pre was a clear indicator that u were weak lol!!!

It's a vile beat but when the cards were turned over, Im guessing u would have taken his hole cards.  It's a nasty result on this occasion but one which, if repeated, would provide better results for u more often.

kirstii

In Response to Re: How do these donks keep winning?:

In Response to Re: How do these donks keep winning? : Scrumdown - u do realise that the Poster's freeroll has now finished don't u?  You now don't have to keep posting in every single thread with an inane comment just for the sake of it!!! Kirstii - I'm guessing the 6x raise pre was a clear indicator that u were weak lol!!! It's a vile beat but when the cards were turned over, Im guessing u would have taken his hole cards.  It's a nasty result on this occasion but one which, if repeated, would provide better results for u more often.
Posted by phil12uk

Hey Phil, i raised so much due to the ammount of limpers in the pot. A standard 3x raise would give people great odds with marginal hands considering the money already in the pot. It was just so sick because he had quadrupled his money in 3 hands with 10 2s , q 4o and J 2s. When you're on a bad run these hands floor you.

lynx3ffect

In Response to Re: How do these donks keep winning?:

In Response to Re: How do these donks keep winning? : Hey Phil, i raised so much due to the ammount of limpers in the pot. A standard 3x raise would give people great odds with marginal hands considering the money already in the pot. It was just so sick because he had quadrupled his money in 3 hands with 10 2s , q 4o and J 2s. When you're on a bad run these hands floor you.
Posted by kirstii

pf is fine raising stupid amounts esp on sky tbh.

ps. buy in full kirstii!!!!!!

kirstii

In Response to Re: How do these donks keep winning?:

In Response to Re: How do these donks keep winning? : pf is fine raising stupid amounts esp on sky tbh. ps. buy in full kirstii!!!!!!
Posted by lynx3ffect

I did, wasn't my first hand

lynx3ffect

In Response to Re: How do these donks keep winning?:

In Response to Re: How do these donks keep winning? : I did, wasn't my first hand
Posted by kirstii

then top up

didnt mean just this table....just always seen u with less than full buy in by quite a way

kirstii

Always take in 40%, works for me. And after the beats i'd taken today i wasn't topping up!! Lol

Dudeskin8

Pretty amazing how he moves all in with 10 2s, but if I was in your situation I would probably have to fold this hand. The best your hoping for is a smaller ace or king, then you might be 50-50 or even 65-35 like this one, also there's the dreaded aces or kings. Overall a lot of the time your gambling, I have never played cash but if i did I don't think i'd be the kind willing to gamble away almost 50 Big blinds. Basically just fold the hand and find a better spot.

jimifloyd

If u call with a better hand its a good call.AK aint great against a PP but the art of calling is about pre flop domination of the opponent in the long run that call against that hand will make money.The concerning part of the post is people keep saying ur not buying in full or topping up.Are u playing above ur roll?If u dont buy in full u have less time to get a good hand a good spot,have to take a risk earlier ect,ect.Plus ur not maximizing when u have the better hand or hit the nuts,i'd recommend dropping down by half the stakes of ur current ones and buy in full.

By the way ur a 64% favourite to win that hand pre.

beginluck

i've been having alot of success with the old "10 2" lately, i discovered it was an excellent hand by accident, i was even going to make a post about it and laughed when i stumbled across this thread, it seems like someone else has caught on

7 2 suited is another one, i'm not kidding either

could be a matter for area 51

KingAlfred

In Response to How do these donks keep winning?:

Donk calls are annoying but it is worth remembering that if they did not happen there would be no way for the better players to make any money.

You create a profit margin in poker by your superior choice of when to fold, call or raise. I see bad beats as a kind of tax on your profit margin. I mean, if you are 60/40 to win then you cannot expect to win all the time, only 20% more often than the other guy. You have to accept that sometimes they will get lucky.

So to my mind, bring em on those calls with rag hands. They are what makes me money in the long run.

BlackFish3

i like that kingalfred... bad beats as a tax on profit... nice one!

kirstii

In Response to Re: How do these donks keep winning?:

In Response to How do these donks keep winning? : Donk calls are annoying but it is worth remembering that if they did not happen there would be no way for the better players to make any money. You create a profit margin in poker by your superior choice of when to fold, call or raise. I see bad beats as a kind of tax on your profit margin. I mean, if you are 60/40 to win then you cannot expect to win all the time, only 20% more often than the other guy. You have to accept that sometimes they will get lucky. So to my mind, bring em on those calls with rag hands. They are what makes me money in the long run.
Posted by KingAlfred

I like that logic i must say!

Rattious

So you raise - he reraises all in and you call (with AK off)

You post bout him being a donk - hope the next time you make a move someone post that you are a donk.

Nerk!

Rattious

In Response to Re: How do these donks keep winning?:

In Response to Re: How do these donks keep winning? : Scrumdown - u do realise that the Poster's freeroll has now finished don't u?  You now don't have to keep posting in every single thread with an inane comment just for the sake of it!!! Kirstii - I'm guessing the 6x raise pre was a clear indicator that u were weak lol!!! It's a vile beat but when the cards were turned over, Im guessing u would have taken his hole cards.  It's a nasty result on this occasion but one which, if repeated, would provide better results for u more often.
Posted by phil12uk

We have no idea what 6x BB raise from the BB means though.

We have no back ground info other than kirstii lost and calls this player a donk.  After all Kirsti just called with Ace K off and didnt really know where they were having been reraised all in... what a donk call in general IMO.  I'm guesssing the reraise all in is always a sign of weakness... :-)

Hope this helps

kirstii

In Response to Re: How do these donks keep winning?:

In Response to Re: How do these donks keep winning? : We have no idea what 6x BB raise from the BB means though. We have no back ground info other than kirstii lost and calls this player a donk.  After all Kirsti just called with Ace K off and didnt really know where they were having been reraised all in... what a donk call in general IMO.  I'm guesssing the reraise all in is always a sign of weakness... :-) Hope this helps
Posted by Rattious

oh aye massively

Rattious

In Response to Re: How do these donks keep winning?:

In Response to Re: How do these donks keep winning? : oh aye massively
Posted by kirstii

Good Stuff :-0

webby234

to be fair rattious, kirsti did say the same player had played with j2 and q4 in previous hands, so any player folding AK against that player wants to pack in, 100% had to call and just got unlucky, keep going kirsti

MereNovice

In Response to Re: How do these donks keep winning?:

to be fair rattious, kirsti did say the same player had played with j2 and q4 in previous hands, so any player folding AK against that player wants to pack in, 100% had to call and just got unlucky, keep going kirsti
Posted by webby234

That argument is counter-logical.
If the player is consistently making these wild plays then you should wait for a spot where you are better than 67% because one will certainly come along.
You should also have a full pull-up in order to maximise your profits when you do find your spot.
The only risk to this strategy is that someone else gets the big hand first and takes the LAG's money.

If you are happy to "gamble" with a 1/2 shot (and a lot of us would) then that's fine but you have to accept that you're not that big a favourite. You should play within your bankroll and make sure that you seek this guy out at the tables every time.

TommyD

Gotta disagree in part with you here MereNovice.  Preflop you won't be getting too many situations that are better than the 67%  Let's got back to when the LAG had Q4.  Imagine if you had Pocket Jacks in that spot, you're now only 69.5% to win.  Are we still looking for a better spot or are we mucking Jacks after investing money in the pot?  The LAG's range is huge and more often than not when you have pairs Jacks to Eights the villian willl have one over.

If I feel I am 65%+ preflop against a loosey goosey I'll make the call.  I hold, happy days.  He hit's one of his 35 from a hundred, I reload and look for the next one.  I agree with you completely though about having a full buy in and this strategy depends completely upon that.

Kirsti - A quick question about the history you had with villian.  Had you been (either to him or to others while he was at the table) raise then folding to a reraise a lot preflop?

MereNovice

The JJ is definitely better because it plays MUCH better against the villain's "range" (I use the word very loosely).
AK is "only" a 72% favourite against a dominated A or K (which is the best that you can hope for).
My argument was purely that the looser/wilder your opponent plays, the longer you can wait because you will get more opportunities to get your money in as a huge (9/1) favourite.

For what it's worth, I call with the AK here too - but, logically, it is not the most +EV play against this type of player.
Personally, I am always happy to take smaller margins against good players (because the opportunity for totally dominating them in a big pot pre-flop is rare) but like to try and find huge odds against weak players (because the opportunity for being massive favourite is much larger).

yb

In Response to Re: How do these donks keep winning?:

In Response to Re: How do these donks keep winning? : That argument is counter-logical. If the player is consistently making these wild plays then you should wait for a spot where you are better than 67% because one will certainly come along.
Posted by MereNovice

I don't really get your logic here MereNovice. If I think I'm a 67% favourite to win a hand in a cash game and I'm getting 6/4 on my money I'm making the call all day long. This play is so +EV that it's a no brainer really and over a decent sample of hands you'll be showing a healthy profit. If it so happens that my opponent sucks out on me, fair enough, I reload and wait until the next time I can get my money in in this position (maybe even better).

kirstii

In Response to Re: How do these donks keep winning?:

Gotta disagree in part with you here MereNovice.  Preflop you won't be getting too many situations that are better than the 67%  Let's got back to when the LAG had Q4.  Imagine if you had Pocket Jacks in that spot, you're now only 69.5% to win.  Are we still looking for a better spot or are we mucking Jacks after investing money in the pot?  The LAG's range is huge and more often than not when you have pairs Jacks to Eights the villian willl have one over. If I feel I am 65%+ preflop against a loosey goosey I'll make the call.  I hold, happy days.  He hit's one of his 35 from a hundred, I reload and look for the next one.  I agree with you completely though about having a full buy in and this strategy depends completely upon that. Kirsti - A quick question about the history you had with villian.  Had you been (either to him or to others while he was at the table) raise then folding to a reraise a lot preflop?
Posted by TommyD

Hey Tommy, to be honest no. This was only the second time there had been a re raise pre flop once since i'd been sitting at the table. Most pots i'd played were taken down on the flop with a c-bet other than two, one of which i folded to a re raise on the flop and one which i check folded.

TommyD

In Response to Re: How do these donks keep winning?:

In Response to Re: How do these donks keep winning? : Hey Tommy, to be honest no. This was only the second time there had been a re raise pre flop once since i'd been sitting at the table. Most pots i'd played were taken down on the flop with a c-bet other than two, one of which i folded to a re raise on the flop and one which i check folded.
Posted by kirstii

Thanks for the reply Kirsti, just trying to get into villian's head.  If you were raise then folding quite a bit this play is totally justifiable, I too would be jamming ATC to collect what was in the middle then.  But as you state it (while I will not totally condemn someone who is doing the raising as long as they know why they are doing it) his plays do seem quite wreckless.

Reload and get them next time.

MereNovice

In Response to Re: How do these donks keep winning?:

In Response to Re: How do these donks keep winning? : I don't really get your logic here MereNovice. If I think I'm a 67% favourite to win a hand in a cash game and I'm getting 6/4 on my money I'm making the call all day long. This play is so +EV that it's a no brainer really and over a decent sample of hands you'll be showing a healthy profit. If it so happens that my opponent sucks out on me, fair enough, I reload and wait until the next time I can get my money in in this position (maybe even better).
Posted by yb

Hi. I probably didn't explain myself properly. I too would make the call with an expectation of being 67%. However, the point that I was trying to make (badly!) is that this is a better move against a reasonably solid player than against a S LAG so webby's point was counter-logical. This is because you can afford to wait for a better spot against loose/wild players. You WILL, almost certainly, find a better spot against a player like this than AK.

If we look at the odds with AK and JJ versus the 3 hands that Kirsti stated, the odds are:

       AK      JJ

T2s    64%     84%
Q4o    68%     72%
J2s    64%     89%

So, with the expectation that this guy is going to be playing wildly with a lot of loose hands, it is +EV (over a game - not a hand) to wait for a hand like JJ where we are likely to have him crushed.

Rattious

In Response to Re: How do these donks keep winning?:

to be fair rattious, kirsti did say the same player had played with j2 and q4 in previous hands, so any player folding AK against that player wants to pack in, 100% had to call and just got unlucky, keep going kirsti
Posted by webby234

Hi Webby tbf kirstii didnt know where they were and to call a player who has quadrupled their money who could have rubbish or could have a monster with AK off is at best gambling.  If kirstii had an edge over this player its not going to be of benefit when they dont play their game!  If this player is a donk wait for more than AK off or perhaps see a flop... I dont think the right thing is to call all in then post about the player being a donk - especially as it isnt XXXXX or Villian - Kirstii has left the names unchanged - Bad form IMO

Wilhelm

I don't mind his play.  You can raise with any two.  I probably wouldn't make your call but I try to take as much gamble out of my game in cash.

scrumdown

phil think your so smart can u please explain what inane means thinks its u thats doing the inane post