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Best course of action?
| 1267 | Small blind | 200.00 | 200.00 | 10820.00 | |
| SenorBegs | Big blind | 400.00 | 600.00 | 12745.00 | |
| Your hole cards |
| ||||
| hhyftrftdr | Raise | 800.00 | 1400.00 | 22157.50 | |
| X | Raise | 2400.00 | 3800.00 | 30505.50 | |
| hhamza162 | Fold | ||||
| EBBERDON | Fold | ||||
| 1267 | Fold | ||||
| SenorBegs | Fold |
Hand from the Roller last night. Villain arrived at the table with that large stack, had been here a while but not played many hands, and yet to tangle or 3bet me, and I was opening a lot of pots esp on the button and vs his BB. No real history with him as don't recall ever really sharing a table, but he has been on the site for a few years now I believe. How to proceed.....
A) Fold.
Call.C) 4bet get it in.
D) 4bet fold.
E) give up poker.
Note the super soft table, God I love the Roller
Comments
I'd call, see what he does on the flop and proceed carefully, as he has more chips than you.
Having said that, E is looking likely for you
For me your options are B, C or D. If I did B it's down to the fact wee have postion and can float his Cbet and see if he wants to fire again at turn. So in effect likely cost us about the same as 4bet preflop. I'm not sure I'm a huge fan of 4bet and get it in if he shoves etc. As with no idea of his 3bet range against a button raise I'd be concerned he is one of those that only 3bets with a 6% or so range. This might be cloloured by my view of the amount of times I've got it in and seen KK or AA over somthing I'm good against like JJ or AK etc.
So if I had to pick I might go for thin 4bet and fold or the call and float his Cbet. I have a feeling better MTT players will say you should be prepared to get it all in with QQ, but I just hate the hand lately. I think option E is the one I should take. lol
So really it's 4bet and fold or 4bet and get it in with him if he shoves etc. I really hate 4bet fold, as it's weak generally, but I've seen it done even by top players if they really believe they are up against better, but thats hard to sure of. If we look at it on the maths then realy it should be 4bet and get it in. Even if he is mega tight with 3bet at 5% of his starting hands we are just shy of 50-50 against that range. So yeah I guess it's 4bet and in is right, even if I hate QQ.
Question is if you 4bet and they put you all-in how many more hands are you keeping in this way (that you can beat) compared to just shoving all-in and hoping for the fold or a call from AK?
Options for me are shove now, or 4bet with a view to calling if shoved on. Think it's too late in tourney to be 4bet folding.
I would be inclined to get it in here. The problem with flatting is the hand much more difficult to play OOP, and we can get bluffed of our hand easily if over cards fall.
To call here you're calling because you think you are in front, as we don't have the odds to set mine.
So if you think you're in front then why not get it in here? I mean if you're getting it in on raggy flops than why not get it in pre? Also getting it in takes away villains postional advantage away.Calling would be an option if we was IP.
Folding here is just too passive i think. To fold here you really need to know that villains 3-betting range is very linear. If you think you can carry on tacking pots down uncontested pre/post flop if you fold then that kinda makes sense i guess.
You said you was opening lots, so villains 3-bet range surley must be wider than AA/KK.
Its a tricky spot but i think that reshoving takes away further tricky decisions in the hand.
I get the feeling you did walk into an over pair though, as you posted the HH.
Can't fold imo and can't get it in pre or 4b/fold
Wouldn't like getting 55BB in pre-flop against someone who hasn't 3-bet us before, having been at the table for a while. 4-bet-folding would also seem crazy because we'd be doing it hoping that the villain flats an UTG 4-bet with a wide range. Who does that?
The positions strengthen villain's range considerably. We'd need a crazy read to put villain on solely AA or KK and we don't have it. Even if we did have that read it becomes a spot to set-mine, not fold. We're getting really good implied odds if villain is a super-nit.
So flat, give him a relatively tight range and do what seems right post-flop.
Our combined odds to set mine are about 15:1, so if we were to think villain is very tight, we're definitely getting good odds to do so. As I say, that requires a very good read.
As it is we can flat to allow the villain to bet on good flops for us. Don't worry about folding on Ace-high boards. Sometimes we fold the best hand. If it's the right decision against the villain's range, then it's the right decision... even if villain shows his 5-high bluff.
Getting it in pre-flop to avoid tough decisions post-flop is not good thinking. We have to trust that we'll make more good decisions post-flop than bad ones. If not, we need to accept that we must do more to improve our game. If we're getting it in pre-flop it has to be because the villain is going to get it in with a range that our QQ are ahead of. That's the way our thinking needs to go.
If we're going to 4-bet, we should probably go to between 5-5.5k. That leverages our stack against the villain without actually putting it all-in. That allows us to have a 4-bet bluffing range when it's appropriate. We need a 4-bet bluffing range if we're ever going to get QQ all-in pre-flop profitably.
Obviously there's no real history with this villain to make us believe we'll be given credit for a 4-bet bluffing range, which is why we shouldn't be 4-betting here. Villain will likely give us a range for 4-betting of AK and QQ+. Meaning his range for 5-betting should have us in big trouble.
If we're calling pre-flop, as I think we should, then it can't just be with the idea of getting it in on any non-Ace or King high flop. We need to maintain an idea of villain's range post flop. If the board comes 24J and we check-call the flop, we're basically only repping an overpair. If villain still wants to get it in on a dry turn card, we have to ask ourselves what that means for his range. Generally it means we're in big trouble. Again, we occasionally fold the best hand in this spot but, against the range of likely hands, it would be a good fold.
Can't remember who the guy was, but honestly think options b c d and definately e are fine
If im 4-bet folding (which i would be pretty often v some players). Probs 4 betting abit smaller .
The mystery of how to play this hand best may never be solved.
4 bet folding gives me a head ache as it does not make any sense, so if we 4 bet fold we want calls right? Why? we build a big pot low spr, oop vs a bigger stack than us ;S, not clever..., and we are essentially turning our hand into a bluff, no logic imo, 4bet get it in is better option for me we can expect plenty of aks there
folding is again bad, at this point villain can have jj+ ak some bluffs, it is a strong spot to 3 bet though with players left to act and that we are utg, still folding is a nono at this point..
facing shove after we 4 bet, im not liking it but there is no way I am folding besides we can suckout and get abuse in chat, allways fun
In answer, if I've 4bret I think I probably call, though I'm kind of expecting bad news. Said before though, QQ is one of my bogey hands, and maybe it's down to me playing it badly myself. lol
Poker does cost money to learn. Accepting that we're not very good is the same as accepting that we're losing players. That's essential in learning to become a winning player. Otherwise we just post hands in BBV because we avoid tough decisions and then can't figure out why we lose money only playing AA, KK and QQ, telegraphing our range all the time.
As soon as I 4bet I immediately realised it was the wrong decision, and I put myself in a ridiculous spot when he shipped on me. Vs other people in other situations I'd snap them off, but not this time. He's never 5bet shipping JJ (I think), QQ obvs very unlikely, so left AKs and AA/KK, which was the reason for the fold.
Thanks for all the input guys. And Brian.